On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]> wrote: > You and Patrik either did not read what I wrote or don't understand it. I did > not say he's not allowed to release his own copy. The fact is that he did not > comply with the tiny little bit that he is legally forced to do. That > disqualifies him completely in my eyes (even if he'd do so in the future.) > Moreover, I said that it is ethical and reasonable to expect that he does not > just do it behind the back. If people would only do exactly what they are > strictly forced to do legally, I am sure society would break down (and we're > already seeing that in practice, but that's a different issue.) Moreover, I > did not say I would not allow anyone to distribute the app if it were > properly acknowledge us (in fact, I did before.) But that's not relevant > here, because he didn't. >
Yes, I definitely read what you wrote, but I apologize if I misunderstood you. If you would have been fine with the person having done this if he/she had included the copyright notice, then I am sorry for having inadvertently ascribed some of the other outrage flying around to you. I do think not including the copyright notice is highly unethical, and everyone does agree on that. > Moreover, this developer is shortchanging his customers: he lets them pay > money for something that has less value. For one, he does not provide any > support, not even a link to himself (the "support" page is useless.) > This is certainly true also. Mark A > Christiaan > > On Jan 24, 2012, at 21:39, M A wrote: > >> I completely agree with Patrik on this. Yes, the software should be >> pulled while it's in violation of the license. But, once this person >> put's that copyright notice in it would be entirely hypocritical to >> try and stop him/her from redistributing (even for money). This is, of >> course, something that happens in open source at times, namely, >> someone essentially forks a project (particularly a BSD one) and >> doesn't meet the expectations of the original developers (e.g. not >> releasing new code, charging money, etc). Really, I think the solution >> is to release all future versions of Skim under a different license >> which reflects the implicit wishes of those who are creating the code. >> >> Mark A >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Patrik Jonsson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> There's also a small matter of behavior. The fact that, strictly speaking, >>>> you;re allowed to does not mean you should take advantage of that. There's >>>> no cost in asking, and he didn't. Not even in the most minimal and legally >>>> required way. Quite frankly, this freeloading behavior I find the most >>>> upsetting, and if we can punish him for that maximally for this by >>>> removing it from the App Store I support that. >>> >>> With all due respect, I think you have an unrealistic view of >>> humanity. To many people, "the fact that strictly speaking you are >>> allowed to" means exactly that: you are allowed to, and expecting >>> otherwise will just cause you to get upset. >>> >>> Moreover, apart from the fact that he's violating the terms of the >>> license by not retaining the copyright, I really fail to see what this >>> is about. The Skim license allows redistribution, commercial or not, >>> and one of the fundamental rights given to users of free software is >>> the right do do whatever they want with it, within the terms of he >>> license, *without asking for permission*. >>> >>> If you look in chapter 8 of RMS's "free software, free society" >>> (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf) he says: >>> >>> "Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you >>> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that >>> you should charge as little as possible—just enough to cover the cost. >>> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge >>> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please >>> read on. >>> The word “free” has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer >>> either to freedom or to price. When we speak of “free software,” we’re >>> talking about freedom, not price. Specifically, it means that a user is >>> free to run the program, change the program, and redistribute the >>> program with or without changes." >>> >>> It seems to me that this is *exactly* what he's talking about. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> /Patrik >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! >>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers >>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, >>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skim-app-users mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! >> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers >> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, >> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d >> _______________________________________________ >> Skim-app-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d > _______________________________________________ > Skim-app-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d _______________________________________________ Skim-app-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users
