I think we're pretty much saying the same thing.
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> On Jan 24, 2012, at 23:24, M A wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >> You and Patrik either did not read what I wrote or don't understand it.
> I did not say he's not allowed to release his own copy. The fact is that he
> did not comply with the tiny little bit that he is legally forced to do.
> That disqualifies him completely in my eyes (even if he'd do so in the
> future.) Moreover, I said that it is ethical and reasonable to expect that
> he does not just do it behind the back. If people would only do exactly
> what they are strictly forced to do legally, I am sure society would break
> down (and we're already seeing that in practice, but that's a different
> issue.) Moreover, I did not say I would not allow anyone to distribute the
> app if it were properly acknowledge us (in fact, I did before.) But that's
> not relevant here, because he didn't.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, I definitely read what you wrote, but I apologize if I
> > misunderstood you. If you would have been fine with the person having
> > done this if he/she had included the copyright notice, then I am sorry
> > for having inadvertently ascribed some of the other outrage flying
> > around to you. I do think not including the copyright notice is highly
> > unethical, and everyone does agree on that.
> >
>
> No, I'm saying that not including the copyright notice is illegal. And the
> rest of what he does is unethical. And my point here is that everything
> that's unethical is not (and should not be) necessarily illegal , or
> reversely that everything that's illegal is necessarily ethical. And after
> he's been already illegal and so clearly unethical, I am not inclined to
> give him any ethical benefit of the doubt.
>
> Christiaan
>
>
> >> Moreover, this developer is shortchanging his customers: he lets them
> pay money for something that has less value. For one, he does not provide
> any support, not even a link to himself (the "support" page is useless.)
> >>
> >
> > This is certainly true also.
> >
> > Mark A
> >
> >> Christiaan
> >>
> >> On Jan 24, 2012, at 21:39, M A wrote:
> >>
> >>> I completely agree with Patrik on this. Yes, the software should be
> >>> pulled while it's in violation of the license. But, once this person
> >>> put's that copyright notice in it would be entirely hypocritical to
> >>> try and stop him/her from redistributing (even for money). This is, of
> >>> course, something that happens in open source at times, namely,
> >>> someone essentially forks a project (particularly a BSD one) and
> >>> doesn't meet the expectations of the original developers (e.g. not
> >>> releasing new code, charging money, etc). Really, I think the solution
> >>> is to release all future versions of Skim under a different license
> >>> which reflects the implicit wishes of those who are creating the code.
> >>>
> >>> Mark A
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Patrik Jonsson
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Christiaan Hofman <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> There's also a small matter of behavior. The fact that, strictly
> speaking, you;re allowed to does not mean you should take advantage of
> that. There's no cost in asking, and he didn't. Not even in the most
> minimal and legally required way. Quite frankly, this freeloading behavior
> I find the most upsetting, and if we can punish him for that maximally for
> this by removing it from the App Store I support that.
> >>>>
> >>>> With all due respect, I think you have an unrealistic view of
> >>>> humanity. To many people, "the fact that strictly speaking you are
> >>>> allowed to" means exactly that: you are allowed to, and expecting
> >>>> otherwise will just cause you to get upset.
> >>>>
> >>>> Moreover, apart from the fact that he's violating the terms of the
> >>>> license by not retaining the copyright, I really fail to see what this
> >>>> is about. The Skim license allows redistribution, commercial or not,
> >>>> and one of the fundamental rights given to users of free software is
> >>>> the right do do whatever they want with it, within the terms of he
> >>>> license, *without asking for permission*.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you look in chapter 8 of RMS's "free software, free society"
> >>>> (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf) he says:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you
> >>>> should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that
> >>>> you should charge as little as possible—just enough to cover the cost.
> >>>> Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge
> >>>> as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please
> >>>> read on.
> >>>> The word “free” has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer
> >>>> either to freedom or to price. When we speak of “free software,” we’re
> >>>> talking about freedom, not price. Specifically, it means that a user is
> >>>> free to run the program, change the program, and redistribute the
> >>>> program with or without changes."
> >>>>
> >>>> It seems to me that this is *exactly* what he's talking about.
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> /Patrik
> >>>>
> >>>>
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--
Peter Rich, PhD
peter_rich [at] byu [dot] edu
Instructional Psychology & Technology
Brigham Young University
Provo, Ut 84602
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