4. Please dont forget drag n drop funcionality! Dragging objects to partitions, shaders to partitions, overrides from partition to partition, partitions from passes to another pass, and probably a few more I dont remember now...
5. Light Partitions that work pretty much like the object partitions do On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Laurence Cymet < [email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for the input guys. The timing of my inquiry is not ideal, but in > the interests of moving forward I appreciate you taking the time to speak > up. > > So here's what I'm hearing is missing from Maya re: render layers: > > > 1) Stability is critical, no more "error parsing argument" broken > layers, setups must be stable, and clear indications of missing > dependencies are needed with the ability to address without breaking setups > > 2) Layer overrides (shader assignments, attr changes) need to be made > on a sub-set of the layer contents (a partition) - not directly on the > object/attr itself. So that you just have to pop an item into that > partition to inherit the override. Changes to referenced input scene data > should clearly indicate what is not included in a partition so that new > stuff can be easily identified and just be popped into the original > partition to receive the same overrides. > > 3) All overrides and memberships within a layer need to be clearly > indicated in one UI (without the requirement to enter the layer) > > Don't hesitate to call me out if I'm not getting something - this list is > to ensure I understand what's missing, don't let me put words in your mouth. > > Is there a way we can actually improve on the process? Perhaps overrides > and assignments could be done conditionally with a dynamic rule? Is a stack > better than a node graph? Let me know if you have had any wishes in the > past. > > As to the questions raised: > > Yes - you can manage overrides with the attribute spreadsheet, which does > include a newly added filter search function. But as you say, it does not > clearly indicate what is happening in the layer specifically. > > Why are we doing this now and not years ago? A good question that deserves > an answer. Maya is as much an "OS for CGI" as it is an out of box DCC (in > many ways more so), and many Maya customers have built their own scene > segmentation tools in Maya to accommodate their specific pipeline - so > improving render layers was not a priority for these customers and the > focus went elsewhere. Focus has turned back on the out-of-box experience, > so we are exploring all options for improving this area. > > > Thanks, > > > Laurence > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Manning > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 3:22 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Softimage to Maya rendering requests > > Thanks for speaking up, Laurence. I'm sure your intentions are good, and > the effort is appreciated. We are however, very upset with your bosses' > decision-making and how it has played out so far. Please don't take it > personally. It is rather a bitter pill that you guys are only speaking to > us now about this. > > Lighting and rendering has been my area of specialization for nearly 20 > years of Softimage use and a bit less than 3 years in Maya. > > I would very much like to participate in any discussion you'd like to have > about possible improvements to Maya's L&R workflow, as I am clearly going > to have to deal with it more and more. > > The primary issue to me, other than render layers simply breaking for > mysterious reasons (a complaint I hear far often from Maya-only artists > than my limited Maya experience would have suggested to me), is the > workflow and organizational overhead required of the user. > > For example: if I want to make a pass in which, say, primary visibility > is turned off for a variety of objects, regardless of their parenting, in > Softimage the workflow is: > > 1. make new pass (1 click) > 2. select n objects (some # of clicks, possibly some rectangle drags, > worst case is n clicks) > 3. put them in a partition (1 click) > 4. put a visibility property onto the partition (one middle-click > drag&drop) > 5. open the visibility property, uncheck primary ray visibility (2 > clicks) > A total of 6 to (n+5) clicks, with the range heavily biased toward the low > end. > > In Maya, the workflow as I've learned it would be more like: > > 1. select everything (probably one click, maybe with a rectangle drag, > or one hotkey combination) > 2. make a new render layer (1 click) > 3. select object #1 (1 click) > 4. go to the attribute editor, select the render stats rollout, > right-click to make a layer override, uncheck primary ray visibility (3 > clicks minimum) > 5. repeat steps 3 & 4 (n-1) times > A total of 2 + (n*4) clicks. > > For any number of objects over 1 (!) the Softimage workflow is much > easier and faster. More importantly, by simply looking at the partition > contents in an explorer view (another thing that would be good to have in > Maya), I can see at a glance which objects have had their visibility > overridden. Is there even a way to do this in Maya? > > Maybe I could do this through the spreadsheet (which I only just heard > about)? Can I do the overrides that way, for that matter? I guess that > would moot the above comparison of clicks, but it suggests other issues. > For example, if I'm taking over someone else's work, or even revisiting my > own from months or years earlier, in Soft I can look at the passes, wonder, > "hmmm, what's this partition here for?" and open it up to see instantly > that it's a primary ray visibility override. If the spreadsheet is the > only place in Maya where the information can be sifted and represented > globally for all of the scene, I'd have to know what I was looking for or > do an exhaustive number of queries and sorts. > > Now, I imagine there's a script to help with this. Assuming there is, I > guess I could find it somewhere online, download it, turn it into a button, > and stick it on a toolshelf somewhere. > > The thing is, the workflow is RIDDLED with these "little things." And I > freelance. I would have to compile and maintain a substantial library of > scripts and plug-ins, and be able to install them every time I sit down to > a new desktop environment, right? This, in order to do nothing special at > all, just reduce the time-suckage and annoyance factor. > > So, by all means, let's continue the discussion! > > Ed Manning > >
