I know designers that don't like to LOOK at html code... imagine lern JSTL, Struts tags, etc... If I was a designer and knew about all this I would probably be a good and expensive one :-)
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:57, Vinay wrote: > This is a very interesting discussion , at this point I would like to join > this discussion and express my concerns and opinions. > I am basically a Java programmer, using struts for our software > development. Even though I am right now doing both design work using JSTL-EL > and development I can't really make the web pages beautiful. I don't use any > IDE or any tools though for any of the stuff. > > So we may have a designer soon and the concern is that most designers I > think will not have knowledge of JSTL .I don't know how difficult it is to > make the designer knowledgeable about JSTL tags ,Java Objects or Java beans > and even if we may allow the designer to do the web page design using some > tool like dreamweaver , still there be lot of burden upon the programmer > to embed the JSTL-EL tags into the JSP pages. It also requires the developer > to use a tool such as Dreamweaver to edit the web designer's code,which may > cause some discrepancies in the design(this might not be true,just my > guess). But I still think that JSTL-EL is the way to go as it really helps > define a view logic (user interface)without any scriplets. > > Vinay > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Lin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Tag Libraries Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: Non Java Developers, programmers using JSTL and taglibs > > > > > > >From past experience there are alot of people who like > > the cold fusion style of page authoring. If you've > > ever looked at cold fusion tags and page syntax, JSTL > > is very similar. > > > > > > Even though tag like syntax has been around for a > > while, many people are still unconfortable with them. > > There's several reasons for this from personal > > experience. Page authors who use WYSIWYG editors and > > don't understand the difference between <p> and <div> > > abhore looking at tags. You don't want these people > > working on pages anyway. > > > > > > On the otherhand, experience HTML coders who write > > html by hand find it a nice environment that allows > > them to do some simple markup logic w/o learning java. > > I had to train junior developer in the past that > > primarily used WYSIWYG editors. Once they got used to > > hand coding html, using tag was preferable to writing > > java. > > > > > > Power comes a cost of learning, so if people find > > their page authors are unwilling to put forth the > > effort, then there's not much you can do. I won't > > mention companies, but there are other BIG players > > that are moving towards tag syntax in their product > > line for webservices. > > > > peter > > > > > > --- Glenn Nielsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Pierre Delisle wrote: > > > > Also, I'd be very interested in hearing about the > > > type of > > > > environment you work in for the development of > > > dynamic > > > > web applications. That should help us understand > > > as a community > > > > the usage profiles and their bias :-) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > -- Pierre > > > > > > All of the discussion so far on this topic has made > > > the assumption > > > that those using this technology are part of a > > > development team. > > > A team that may include graphic designers, web > > > designers, programmers, > > > dba's, and architects where design concepts like MVC > > > can be implemented. > > > This assumption holds up for the most part for > > > businesses which use > > > this technology for web enabling the enterprise. > > > > > > For our own inhouse development we follow this model > > > also, although > > > our team is very small (3-4 people), and most of the > > > team can fulfill > > > multiple roles. > > > > > > My organization provides email and web site hosting > > > for non profit organizations > > > and schools. The types of organizations which can't > > > afford to hire a development > > > team or hire expensive consultants to design complex > > > applications. But these > > > customers often have a need to add some sort of > > > simple dynamic content to their > > > web sites. Generally those who maintain these web > > > sites are not programmers. > > > A better term to describe them would be page > > > authors. Technologies such as > > > JSP pages with custom tags, especially the Standard > > > Taglib, can lower the > > > technology barrier to a point where some adventurous > > > page authors can invest > > > the time to learn enough about these technologies to > > > create simple applications > > > which adds dynamic content to their web site. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Felipe Schnack Analista de Sistemas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cel.: (51)91287530 Linux Counter #281893 Centro Universitário Ritter dos Reis http://www.ritterdosreis.br [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fone/Fax.: (51)32303341 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
