Thanks Srinivasan Sir. 1. We can't deny, however much we try, that certain sections were suppressed and oppressed, not by brahmins alone but more so by the other so called upper castes.
2. Until as recently as a decade back there were some villages in T N where their womenfolk cannot wear blouses but cover their upper body only with their sarees. Their men cannot wear chappels nor can they put their towels over their shoulders - that needs to be tied to their hips. These rules were applied when they had to cross over the so called upper caste areas. There are still some temples in T N where they are not allowed to enter. What we forget is that these practices also contribute to conversions though other religions also practice the same evil of caste discrimination, but more subtly. Why do you think the blacks are given preference under Affirmative Action in the U S? 3. It is true Rama did not give any part of his kingdom to others but neither was there these kinds of atrocities and blatant violation of human rights - all in the name of castes. Even today in T N villages there is subtle, unannounced discrimination being practiced but not by brahmins ( they have migrated to the cities) but by the dominant so called upper caste folks in that area. Yes, the reservation system hurts the talented but decades of oppressed ones need some crutches before they can start walking on their own. It has gone on for far too long and too far but who will bell the cat? N Sekar On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 10:40 PM Srinivasan Sridharan < [email protected]> wrote: > *Dear Sri Sekar,* > > * I have some opinion on the issue of reservation* > * which I thought I would tell.* > * Sama Dharma is a part of Sanathana Dharma.* > * It means every Jeevathma should be respected equally,* > * since Paramathma resides in all Jeevathmas. It means respect* > > * not only human beings but also other living beings.* > * However reservation is for preferring some scheduled castes * > * and tribe people be given Govt jobs in preference to people* > * of other castes, overlooking the possibility of incompetence.* > * in some of those who have been given such Govt jobs.* > * It has nothing to do with Social equality or mutual respect* > * of all human beings! It of course gives those people a chance* > > * to have better material life than what their ancestors had ! That is > all!* > * Sri Rama wholeheartedly accepted* > > * a person (Guha) from the hunter tribe and a monkey (Sugreeva)* > * and a Rakshasa (Vbheeshana ) as his own brother ! This is Samadharma!* > * Sri Rama did not give any part of the Kosala Kingdom to Guha* > *or Sugreeva or Vibhishana even though he offered the same to* > * Bharatha, Lakshmana and Shathrugna who are also his brothers.* > * Dharma is subtle, especially Sama Dharma !* > > * Sridharan.* > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 4:24 AM Narayanaswamy Sekar <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: 'N Sekar' via iyer123 <[email protected]> >> Date: Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 4:51 PM >> Subject: Re: [iyer123] Re: [KeralaIyers] Re: Comedy of errors-reg >> To: <[email protected]>, 'gopala krishnan' via iyer123 < >> [email protected]> >> >> >> Thanks Sri G K. >> >> Equality does not mean everyone should be of the same standard - >> physically, materially, financially etc. >> >> It does not also mean that everyone should be reduced to the lowest >> common denominator. >> >> It just means we treat all as human beings and extend the courticies to >> them as we would expect them to do to us. Basic courtesy and Decency in >> treating all is all that it means. >> >> Yes we have hierarchies in the office but that does not give us the right >> to treat our subordinates as your slaves. Everyone craves for dignity and >> respect and we should recognize that fact. >> >> " Do unto others as what you would have them do unto you" >> Is the maxim any cultured and civilized person is expected to follow. >> >> Even in the Mahabharata we have the story of how Durupathan insulted >> Drona ( asking Drona how a poor brahmin can claim to be friends with a >> king like Durupatha) and the consequences. >> >> Arrogance leads to downfall sooner or later. >> >> It is worth remembering Satya Sai Bagahwan's words " End of Education is >> Humility". >> >> Re: why we have reservations, the short answer is " Affirmative Action" >> is a pre requisite to uplift the unfortunate, poorer sections of society. >> But unfortunately it has degenerated into caste issues in our country and >> no party dare touch it lest the affected section changes its votes - >> Vote bank politics in different forms and shapes and colors. We can't >> deny though that some sections of the society were oppressed and suppressed >> and the inevitable backlash is more than one expected. That's why 10% >> reservation for the poor so called upper class is a welcome step. Poverty >> knows no caste or religion. >> >> >> N Sekar >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_> >> >> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 10:39 AM, 'gopala krishnan' via KeralaIyers >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear Mr Sekar, >> >> I forgot to add one thing. I have read else where Gayathree manthra was >> there already, Sage Viswamithra put it in a new chandas. >> >> All sages had rivalries between them, sage Brahaspathi, and sage Sukra >> are examples . Sage Viswamithra had pride . It made him Rajarshi, and he >> became Devarshi after loosing his pride. >> >> On Wednesday, 24 January, 2024 at 10:32:29 am IST, 'gopala krishnan' via >> iyer123 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Dear Mr Sekar, >> >> I have gone through your response. >> >> In that case why the Government of India still follows caste and >> religion? >> >> Even after 76 years why the Government of India still keeps reservation >> for BC, SC and ST for concessions and reservations? >> >> Even with in the religion why difference between castes? >> >> If all are humans and equal, (It should be) all the above and many more >> are to be changed. >> >> As homo sapiens, by nature it is very difficult to change animal >> qualities with in all of us. These animal qualities are responsible for all >> the problems in the world/countries/ states/ among people. >> >> One person feels he is superior. Another's views are ignored. There is >> no tolerance. Then only equality. >> >> I recollect an incidence from Ramayana. I cannot quote sarga /kanda. Once >> Seetha devi asked Sri Rama why people are not made equal. I desire so. Sri >> Rama with a smile made every body equal. Different sects of people forgot >> their duties. They simply enjoyed life. >> >> A leakage occurred in the palace. A search was made. No masons to attend. >> Sita understood the folly. Sri Rama changed the maya created. Masons >> appeared. Immediately the leakage was attended to. >> >> So I feel we can have *some sort of equality in standard of living,* not >> fully. I have read articles about present day Russia, still there are >> catagories of people doing different works, the person doing menial jobs >> may have better standard of living than one do red collar jobs or ordinary >> jobs. >> Gopalakrishnan >> >> >> On Wednesday, 24 January, 2024 at 09:28:27 am IST, 'N Sekar' via >> KeralaIyers <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Thank you both Sri G K and Sri Sridharan and a couple of others who did >> not cc the group for reasons all well known. At least they responded. >> >> Without elaborating ( as it will be found sensitive and will touch raw >> nerves) let me just say - based on my knowledge gained from reading, >> listening to and my own reflection of what I read and listened to. >> >> I understand there will be different opinions BUT I strongly feel all of >> us are humans and hence deserve to be treated as such - there is no >> question of superiority or inferiority. >> >> Each of us have a job to do and let us do it. There is something called " >> Dignity of Labour". >> >> Also, different sects follow different customs and we can't judge others >> by what we do. >> >> Let us do what we do and let them do what they do. Who are we to dictate >> to others and impose our practices on others esp because none of us ( in a >> general sense) contributed anything in the struggle of 500 years - we may >> have sent donations to the Trust as I have, BUT that is not equal to the >> struggles they had put up - just watch the dead bodies of the kar sevaks >> bring pulled up / dragged from the Sarayu river and you will realize the >> price they had paid. >> >> Whether what they did was right or wrong is for another day- they felt >> suppressed by the invaders and then by our own sicular crowd who will not >> hesitate to sell the Nation for a few votes - and that crowd includes the >> so called brahmins. >> >> So they are fully entitled to decide where, when and how the ceremonies >> will be conducted and by who. It is their customs and we are outsiders as >> far as their practices go. If we don't like what they do let us not witness >> or visit them - nobody compelled any one else. >> >> Will we tolerate if they come and tell us how to do Kumbabhidhekam on our >> temples? If the answer is No then let us not comment on their practices. >> >> So let us not interfere with what is essentially their function - they >> toiled for it, paid for it with their lives even, and let them garner all >> the glory that is legitimately theirs. >> >> Just leave them alone. >> >> We are just not entitled to pass critical remarks without contributing >> anything. >> >> Let us remember that the paths we take may differ but ultimately the >> Destination is the same. Methods differ but Purpose is One. >> >> I again repeat- I prostrate a thousand times to all those responsible for >> this magnificent Temple, reflecting our glorious heritage, and that >> includes all the Kar Sevaks who gave their lives. Day before yesterday when >> I was watching it I prayed for their souls and lovingly and respectfully >> remembered them. >> >> Just a couple of remarks on your two mails. >> >> 1. Varnas and not Jathis, are based on one's occupation and is not by >> birth. >> If it is by birth then the Greatest Mantra - Mother of All Mantras, >> Gayathri Mantra, was actually given by a Kshahtriya called Viswamitra who >> through TAPAS, >> AND NOT BY BIRTH, became a Brahma Rishi and is now addressed >> respectfully as Sage Vuswamitra. >> >> 2. If, for argument's sake, just for argument's sake, we consider the >> 4th varna as coming from His Feet ( while some claim superiority because >> they think they came from HIS FACE), then let me point out >> >> In the Vishnu Temples the "Sadari" that we so respectfully and with >> devotion accept to be placed on our heads represents HIS FEET. >> >> So if we claim the 4th Varna came from His Feet, it is those Feet that we >> willingly place on our heads. >> >> It was Rama's Padhukas that ruled Ayodhya for 14 years and not a replica >> of His Face. >> >> Need I say more? >> >> I will stop here sir as I know arguments are futile. I believe strongly >> in Karma and hence I would not demean anyone. Who knows what we were in our >> previous births and what we will be in our next? >> >> I feel it is in all our interest to >> Give respect and Get Respected. "You get what you give" and so let us >> take care in what we give. >> >> Regards >> >> N Sekar >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_> >> >> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 7:56 AM, gopala krishnan >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear Mr Sekar, >> >> Since you provided copy to groups on your response to the mail on the >> above topic from Mr Narayanaswamy, I felt I may express a few thoughts came >> to me on reading it. >> >> I was getting mails from Kanchimatam as *Deivathin kural *during 1998's. >> I recollect Periyavar stating birth is by caste and not by actions. By >> actions a Kshathriya or Vaisya can become *equal to a brahmin *and in >> next birth, he will be born in a brahmin family. >> >> A soodra may become equal to a Vaisya or Kshathriya or Brahmin by his >> noble actions, and *born in such a family in his next birth. * >> >> He stated Brahmins going away from their duties, not that because of such >> going away, Brahmins have become other castes because of the above. >> >> If I am wrong, you may express your opinion. >> Gopalakrishnan >> >> I understand during Thretha yuga only Hinduism was there with castes. >> Irrespective of caste, Lord Vishnu had his incarnation in different castes >> and actually incarnation was felt not during their life period. >> >> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/933034405.82742.1706068693778%40mail.yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/933034405.82742.1706068693778%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "iyer123" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/552231458.85769.1706072538613%40mail.yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/552231458.85769.1706072538613%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/69293431.88966.1706072953453%40mail.yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/69293431.88966.1706072953453%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "iyer123" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/220161401.131040.1706095273148%40mail.yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iyer123/220161401.131040.1706095273148%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Thatha_Patty" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CABC81ZdvK1qwf-GU6RvZfWTRAFfXS3creoVpM36cR7JkGBrSSQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CABC81ZdvK1qwf-GU6RvZfWTRAFfXS3creoVpM36cR7JkGBrSSQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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