Bob, Very interesting. I can see plenty of ways to implement and automate the data model but need to digest the the meaning of each element and how to support discovery. Are there any examples or databases using this method we could get an example of?
I have a few ex-CSIRO's staff in my friend and acquaintance circles. Retirement of people with broad and deep knowledge is a creative and productive opportunity, so often neglected. I imagine there may be information found in various domains that could be used to pre-populate such a database. I have considered in depth expert systems learning, particularly in complex technical support areas, when the act of solving problems. builds a repository of knowledge and uses analytics and actual use to strengthen the expert system. I imagine this solution could be similar. The idea is to use the information so far and add when a gap is found, but with the gaps filled in a reusable way and when the answer/element exists promote the path taken to find an answer/mpodel according to its effectiveness. In effect providing conditional multi-dimensional decision trees, that respond to future interactions. Only once a larger dataset exists can we start to derive new methods and mechanisms with less effort. Regards Tones On Thursday, 3 December 2020 at 16:00:47 UTC+11 [email protected] wrote: > Colleagues, > > all this thinking started by Charlie's initial posting, has led me to > begin building a simple TW utilising the Toulmin Argument Model for > representing links and associations between TW tiddlers. This is something > I have been planning to do for some time, now that I am 'retired' I have > the time. > > My reasoning is that a completed statement represents the context in which > the link between Ground and Claim can be made. This then also supports many > different reasons for creating an association between a set of Grounds and > Claims each one providing a single instance of context in which the > association is deemed valid. > > My thoughts so far: > A statement can be considered like an IF...THEN statement but more > complicated due to the additional elements, Warrant, Backing, Rebuttal and > Qualifier. The IF part represents the Ground and the THEN part the Claim. > > The Qualifier could be a percentage value or some other statement of > possibility/plausibility. > > Not all elements need to be utilised in any statement, only those that > make sense for that particular statement. > > Elements can be re-used between statements > > Statements can be collected together into a domain of thought or > applicability. Thus a single TW could cater for many domains. > > Each element is represented by its own tiddler and all tiddlers for a > statement are linked together to form the completed statement. Links are > stored as Field values in the statement tiddler and also in a Statement > field of each element tiddler as the links are essentially many-to-many in > ER terms. > > Quandries: > > How to handle content elements not text? Images, audio, video, etc... > > How to produce an 'active' instance of the domain, ie. an instance that > functions follow some reasoning mechanism (ie. forward chaining...) > > Shared TW: > > http://turtlelane.com.au/Development/ToulminModel/toulmin.html > > Happy to have your input/thoughts/etc. > > bobj > > On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 15:30:11 UTC+11 Charlie Veniot wrote: > >> Like misery, hyperactive-firing-on-all-cylinders synapses love company ... >> >> Although right here in this group is fine by me, I'm interested wherever >> discussion happens. >> >> On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 11:30:48 PM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Charlie, Tones, TiddlyTweeter >>> >>> first off, I hold you personally responsible for firing up my dormant >>> synapses. Thanks for that, you have provided renewed impetus for me to >>> continue pondering these issues, which I essentially ceased to do in any >>> meaningful way since I left my research position at CSIRO (the Federal >>> Government's research body in Australia). A dormant area of my brain has >>> reawakened :-) This will also require me to unbox my library so suitable >>> books can be re-queried (all my books are in storage as we have been living >>> most of the time in South Korea for the past decade. Corona has left us >>> 'stranded' in Sydney). >>> >>> I will respond to the recent postings but, like Tones, need to think >>> things through a bit more rather than provide a rambling nonsense of ideas >>> and thoughts. >>> >>> One thought though. Maybe it is time to take discussion outside of this >>> group. Not that I want to disenfranchise anybody but the discussion has >>> wider ramifications/application than Tiddlywiki. It also can be applied to >>> Mediawiki and even Bill Atkinson's original Hypercard and its offshoots. >>> Also, this discussion can then take advantage to TW's linking facility, >>> etc. Just a thought. >>> >>> Ciao for now. >>> >>> bobj >>> On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 14:19:52 UTC+11 Bob Jansen wrote: >>> >>>> TiddlyTweeter wrote: >>>> "Very good case example (http://cultconv.com/ [footnote---on mobile >>>> its too minuscule!])." >>>> >>>> yes, I know of the sizing issue on mobile devices. Not sure how to >>>> handle that other than a redesign which I am loathe to do given usage >>>> stats >>>> (~8,000 per month over last calendar year). The basic design is for >>>> multiple synchronous channels of information, in this case four >>>> (video/audio, transcript, table of contents and images with captions). >>>> Altogether too much for a small screen. Plus on iPhone, the video takes >>>> over the whole screen anyway. >>>> >>>> bobj >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 03:50:57 UTC+11 TiddlyTweeter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ciao bobj >>>>> >>>>> Very good case example (http://cultconv.com/ [footnote---on mobile >>>>> its too minuscule!]). >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I really took to your last point ... >>>>> >>>>> Throughout all of my research career, the issue that continually crops >>>>>> up is context. I think this is the crucial component to keep things >>>>>> understandable. Yet no agreed understanding of context exists yet we all >>>>>> use it ... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right. In terms of information design issues there is no algorithm for >>>>> accurately deriving either "scope of meaning" or "scope of inference >>>>> (context implying)". Though it is pretty clear on net that within "fields >>>>> of interest" context is ALWAYS playing an implicit role in successful >>>>> sites. >>>>> >>>>> I thought the site you gave access to excellent. *Very honed to >>>>> purpose*. It is an unusual (uplifting) thing seeing such a >>>>> "schematization" work so well. >>>>> I think that is the point. You have to "sniff/tease" out context and >>>>> back generate (derive) schema from that first-felt understanding that >>>>> isn't >>>>> otherwise derivable. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes >>>>> TT >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6751184c-f3e1-42e4-a63f-16d4253c6769n%40googlegroups.com.
