On May 31, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Mike wrote: > > On May 31, 8:17 am, Risto Kankkunen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> idea, they are just annoying to get working. Put this installer >>>> in Trac >>>> core, and you get the experience I think everyone wants. >> >>> And it is called DLL, pardon, plugin hell ;-( >> >> Like with Firefox and its extenstions? I thought extensions have been >> its path to success: the core product cannot (and should not) please >> everyone and with extensions everyone can still make the product do >> what they need. >> > You are missing the point. Nobody argues against extemtions per se > and > nobody wants for Trac to please all. > Trac and FireFox are very different animals: > - FireFox is an end user application. You can do whatever you please > with > it - it is on yours computer. Besides that FireFox as a web browser is > feature > complete - you need no extensions to browse the web and it has a lot > of > additional convenience features for that out of the box. Imagine if > such a > not exactly needed for web browsing features as bookmarks, history, > navigation panel etc. would be needed to be downloaded and installed > separately :). > Would you prefer such a browser to the current FireFox? > - Trac is a server side application for a project development and > management. > Of course if you use it for your home pet project you can run it on > you > development machine and install/remove whatever you want at any time. > But if you use it for the team of developers and for a big enough > project or > even several projects then it is completely different. In this case > you better put > Trac on a server machine, pay attention to security, backups etc. In > this case > Trac is not a toy for a computer kiddy anymore, it should obey to the > common > rules for a server side application. Try to talk to you IT people and > see whould > they allow you to install/update plugins with a point and click > through the web
The simple plugin installer would also be integrated with trac-admin (trac-admin ... install tags, perhaps). I just like GUIs so thats what I have written first. > > and if yes then what requirements should be met in every such case. > And to the contrary to FireFox, almost all Trac installations use > plugins to fulfill > the core functionality - rename/navigate/tag wiki pages, customize/ > query tickets, > etc. It is just plain inconvenient. What is considered a "core feature" differs for people. Trac core provides the lowest common denominator. There are times when a plugin needs to be integrated, as I mentioned in an earlier email, and then we should go ahead and do that. These cases have been pretty rare so far though. The fact that you included wiki tags as a core feature illustrates this pretty well, I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list that don't care at all about tags. > > >> The problem I've had with Trac plugins so far is that there are a >> couple of interesting plugins that state their 0.10 version is broken >> (by design) and will not fixed until version 0.11, but version 0.11 > > I like this term - "broken by design" - that is a real pearl! The only plugin I know of that fits this is MasterTickets, and yes the design I picked for the 0.10 version turned out poorly. To say I purposefully picked a bad design is quite silly. I did a massive rework when I ported to 0.11 and it works much better. This is how development works, you try to improve things. > > >> has been so slow to materialize. The more Trac starts to rely on >> plugins, the more the core team needs to think about the release >> cycle > > And unless these plugins will be maintained inside the core code base > the more such a "broken by design" interesting plugins you will > encounter ;) > > As a side note - look at the side bar on http://www.trac-hacks.org/ > <<start quote>> > Upgrading TracHacks to 0.11 ¶ > > TracHacks will be intermittently offline over the next week or so > while I upgrade to Trac 0.11. > <<end quote>> > The main Trac plugins repository requires 'week or so' to upgrade! I > think that the main > reason for that is "The Trac Plugins Hell". No, the reason for this is that both Alec and I have real lives and lots of other things to do. Its just a question of finding time to do a server upgrade. --Noah --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Trac Development" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
