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Hi Pru,
The forced to know is on the receipt side so its one's opponents PD
postulate and therefore one's motivator.
I am cutting the following from TROM pdf: Quotes in bold:
SD ------------------PD
1. Make known. -------- Know
2. Make not-known ---- Not-know
switch around:
3. Know. --------------- Make known
4. Not-know.------------Make not-known.
The "self" postulate is at one’s own end of the comm line, and is
called the self-determined postulate ( SD ); the "other’s" postulate is
the one you put at the other end of the comm line, and is called the
pan-determined postulate ( PD ). Thus, when two beings, at different
ends of a comm line, adopt (1) and (3) or (2) and (4) respectively,
both their self-determined and pan-determined postulates match
perfectly, and understanding occurs. However, when they adopt (1) &
(4) or (2) & (3) respectively, there is conflict between their SD
& PD postulates and understanding is correspondingly reduced.
Lets start off with myself (Martin) and my intent is to make this tech
known. (My SD postulate is that it
should be known) I don't know the other people but want them to have
my PD postulate "Know"
Those that want to know will probably in turn want to make it known to
others so they adopt a (SD) -Make known - and a (PD) -Know- that
others will know.
I will try and distinguish the foregoing from a boxing tournament:
"Importance" is cardinal. In the above I'm making knowledge known
without enforcing conviction whilst below I and my opponent are
enforcing conviction:
I want to make known the feeling of my fist on an opponents face I
will find that my opponent doesn't want to know that. He may
duck the
blow, and attempt giving me a "make known" in return. Its his
pan-determined postulate. If his fist connects with my nose then I
will now "know" the assorted pain etc. that goes with it.
>From TROM:
"It is a law of all games that overwhelming failure causes the being
to
compulsively adopt the pan-determined postulate of his opponent. This
is the postulate enforced upon him at his end of the comm line. A game,
then, can be regarded as a conflict of postulates wherein a being
endeavours to convince his opponent of his own ( PD ) postulate, while
resisting the ( PD ) postulate arrayed against him. All games, despite
their seeming complexity, can be reduced to this basic simplicity and
thus understood.
All games contain conviction. Conviction, by definition, is an
enforcement of knowingness. Enforcement of knowingness is called
importance. Importance is the basis of all significance. Essentially,
importance is a "must".
In games of play our four basic abilities become:
SD ----------------------
PD
1. Must be known.--------Must know.
2. Must not be known.---Must not know
Then they switch around!
3. Must know.--------------Must be known
4. Must not know.---------Must not be known.
Eg.
The prisoner doesn't want it known that he was spying (Must not be
known). The interrogator uses a must know (torture/pain) on him and the
prisoner gets forced to know pain and reveals his secret. The prisoner
wants to inform the public (must be known) of the
atrocities committed on him. The interrogator doesn't want people to
know (must not know) how cruel he was and kills the prisoner and
buries him (His PD - must not be known) . The prisoner received a "must
know" (death) motivator.
The interrogator can't hide his deed from himself, and uses drugs and
alcohol to "Must not know" to live with himself and eventually adopts
the PD postulate of
the prisoner (must be known) and leaks info to be found out because
the public have a right to know - Must know.
And now you "must know" that I am no writer of novels. :-D
Martin
Pru Joy wrote:
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Thanks very much for that
Martin.
My "find" function for "pan
determinism" did not pick that definition table up. I am currently
using the wordpad version that is on Pete's Tromhelp site. I had a pdf
version on my other computer that has gone in for repair.
OK - so now I am clearer as
to the use of the term "Pan Determined" in TROM. Whether
"complimentary" or "overwhelm" that determinism that includes the
action of self & others is described as being "Pan Determined".
Phew!
So now to just clarify if I
am recognizing the Pan Determined postulates correctly, as per Lvl
5,1A, would "Forced to know" be the PD, OR is it "must be known"? What
does that last column on the chart represent?
This probably appears so
obvious to everyone, as Dennis mentions at the end of the tape, but he
does say that it just takes the "operating" of Lvl 5 for awhile to make
it seem so, obvious that is 
PJ
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