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Hello David You have every right in the world to your well-founded opinion, which for shure is as valid as mine. But maybe you wish to have a thought or two about your motivation to stay on this list. Best wishes Roberto
_____ Von: David M. Pelly [mailto:[email protected]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. April 2011 19:34 An: [email protected]; TROM List Betreff: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' Roberto, Read John McMaster's stuff and Filbert's bridge and you will learn that less than one tenth of one percent of Hubbard's words is true. Only those who have the right kind of ears to hear and eyes to see and the mind to understand it, will find that less than one tenth of one percent that is true. Similar applies to TROM. TROM is laced with a lot of false data, and traps. But a lot of truth ( good stuff, god tech, ) is contained and hidden within the lies, false data etc. To paraphrase Neil Armstrong as it applies to Scientology and the sciences of enlightenment: The truth is out there, but it is hidden and protected by many layers of lies and guarded by assholes, lunatics and a bad reputation. As Joe Larabell said: Earth is an elite school, it is not for the faint hearted. He said only about one person in a 100,000 is salvageable. The Bible says, that many are called and few are chosen. David From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 12:32:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' ************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Sorry for bluntly jumping in whilst usually only reading (and fighting with the English language) and not even having introduced myself. But I felt a responsibility here to offer you my opinion for evaluation. 1. re gradient The materials of TROM, very obviously if you think about it, triggers reactions: old overwhelms, losses, overts, motivators - any shit you can think. You could ease the materials down to any desired level - pictures, comics, filmed instructions - it wouldn't help a bit. It would trigger the bank anyway and the bank in return hinders understanding and the whole thing goes round in circles. I am slowly, slowly beginning to understand that PD and SD and four legs et cetera stuff. But hey, I am on level 3, I do not need to know more than 3. I didn't know about level 3 when I was on level 2, and I'm too lazy to reread level 4 before I am done with level 3. 2. re alterations That's making all alarm bells ring. From observation I deduced that alterations are manifestations of games conditions. For needed and reasonable alterations no one seems to care... I see it happen all the time in the advertising business. Someone comes up with a faulty idea: it passes. Someone comes up with a great idea: it gets watered down. Why? A hundred people try to take ownership of the idea. The creative director says: "jeah not bad that design, but move this line here a bit to the left - see! better now isn't it?" Now he owns it, he's in the delusion that he's the man. Yes, I hate to admit that Dennis is so much more clever than I am and that not in a million years I would have come up with such stuff. But I'd rather go into the game of getting ahead of him by completing level 5 ;-) 3. complementary material I had planned to write some material in German, but I dropped the idea for the moment. Because I think that's full of booby traps too. Examples and explanations and interpretations are the covered and therefore most dangerous way of altering things. In that regard, a certain Mr. L. Ron was right. 4. Scn Definitions The holy cow of Scn is the correctness of the tech. The all agree wildly, even many of the Ex's. In my amateurish opinion, besides all genius, there are many, many technical errors. Yes, Scn was needed education for Dennis, but there it ends for me and Scn becomes history. TROM may contain Scn but for me, there doesn't exist any present association between the two subjects or any benefit from using anything Scn. Sorry for that exhausting amount of words... Best wishes and greetings from Switzerland Roberto _____ Von: Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:[email protected]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. April 2011 03:17 An: The Resolution of Mind list Betreff: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' Hi Harry, April 4/'11 QUERY Very well put. Thanks. So am I correct, that you wouldn't even want annotated numbered definitions at the bottoms of the pages in the original manual? It indicates to me to defer to and trust your judgement on this. Thanks so much, Aarre Peltomaa [email protected] (647) 202-7267 On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Happy Harry wrote: ************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Hey guys, I thought I'd add a few cents (or pence) to this discussion concerning study aids for TROM. Some sections of the TROM manual may be a bit hard to understand (at first) - I'm not going to deny that. And this is further compounded for those without a Scientology background. But, and this is a big "but", it is not the task or responsibility (or even the right) of this list to alter or rearrange the original manual in any way. I'm compelled to agree with Pete in this matter. The original text states, in the foreword: "It is of course each person�s responsibility to fully understand the text and apply it to themselves correctly. There is help and support provided on a list on the internet." "It is each person's responsibility"...I think that says it all. Furthermore (in the section entitled 'Finale'): "When you duplicate the data, you duplicate it exactly. Not because I am enamored with my prose style, but because altered it could very easily become just another trap in a universe already abundantly endowed with them." I think it would be terribly, terribly WRONG to alter the manual in an attempt to 'simplify' it. It would also be wrong to tell people how to read it, what parts of it to read and it what order. Everytime you alter something, no matter how good your intentions may have been, you get into hot water. That being said, it can't hurt to put together a couple of study aids. Surely you all know that there are study aids for major works of literature. The student would refer to the study aid (e.g. CliffsNotes) to aid in the understanding of the primary text. You wouldn't just read the study aid without reading the original work. And so it might be a good idea to put together some study guide, glossary of terms or something like that. But such material MUST emphasise that they are merely "study aids" and that the original manual is the "primary source" and should be studied primarily. They should always encourage the reader to read the original manual, they should always direct him back to it, NOT AWAY FROM IT. In no case should the original manual itself be altered in ANY way. Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter, and I thought I'd share them with you... Harry > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:52:53 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom ____________________________________________________________ Share photos & screenshots in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom Sorry for bluntly jumping in whilst usually only reading (and fighting with the English language) and not even having introduced myself. But I felt a responsibility here to offer you my opinion for evaluation. 1. re gradient The materials of TROM, very obviously if you think about it, triggers reactions: old overwhelms, losses, overts, motivators - any shit you can think. You could ease the materials down to any desired level - pictures, comics, filmed instructions - it wouldn't help a bit. It would trigger the bank anyway and the bank in return hinders understanding and the whole thing goes round in circles. I am slowly, slowly beginning to understand that PD and SD and four legs et cetera stuff. But hey, I am on level 3, I do not need to know more than 3. I didn't know about level 3 when I was on level 2, and I'm too lazy to reread level 4 before I am done with level 3. 2. re alterations That's making all alarm bells ring. From observation I deduced that alterations are manifestations of games conditions. For needed and reasonable alterations no one seems to care... I see it happen all the time in the advertising business. Someone comes up with a faulty idea: it passes. Someone comes up with a great idea: it gets watered down. Why? A hundred people try to take ownership of the idea. The creative director says: "jeah not bad that design, but move this line here a bit to the left - see! better now isn't it?" Now he owns it, he's in the delusion that he's the man. Yes, I hate to admit that Dennis is so much more clever than I am and that not in a million years I would have come up with such stuff. But I'd rather go into the game of getting ahead of him by completing level 5 ;-) 3. complementary material I had planned to write some material in German, but I dropped the idea for the moment. Because I think that's full of booby traps too. Examples and explanations and interpretations are the covered and therefore most dangerous way of altering things. In that regard, a certain Mr. L. Ron was right. 4. Scn Definitions The holy cow of Scn is the correctness of the tech. The all agree wildly, even many of the Ex's. In my amateurish opinion, besides all genius, there are many, many technical errors. Yes, Scn was needed education for Dennis, but there it ends for me and Scn becomes history. TROM may contain Scn but for me, there doesn't exist any present association between the two subjects or any benefit from using anything Scn. Sorry for that exhausting amount of words... Best wishes and greetings from Switzerland Roberto _____ Von: Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:[email protected]] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. April 2011 03:17 An: The Resolution of Mind list Betreff: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' Hi Harry, April 4/'11 QUERY Very well put. Thanks. So am I correct, that you wouldn't even want annotated numbered definitions at the bottoms of the pages in the original manual? It indicates to me to defer to and trust your judgement on this. Thanks so much, Aarre Peltomaa [email protected] (647) 202-7267 On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Happy Harry <[email protected]> wrote: ************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Hey guys, I thought I'd add a few cents (or pence) to this discussion concerning study aids for TROM. Some sections of the TROM manual may be a bit hard to understand (at first) - I'm not going to deny that. And this is further compounded for those without a Scientology background. But, and this is a big "but", it is not the task or responsibility (or even the right) of this list to alter or rearrange the original manual in any way. I'm compelled to agree with Pete in this matter. The original text states, in the foreword: "It is of course each person�s responsibility to fully understand the text and apply it to themselves correctly. There is help and support provided on a list on the internet." "It is each person's responsibility"...I think that says it all. Furthermore (in the section entitled 'Finale'): "When you duplicate the data, you duplicate it exactly. Not because I am enamored with my prose style, but because altered it could very easily become just another trap in a universe already abundantly endowed with them." I think it would be terribly, terribly WRONG to alter the manual in an attempt to 'simplify' it. It would also be wrong to tell people how to read it, what parts of it to read and it what order. Everytime you alter something, no matter how good your intentions may have been, you get into hot water. That being said, it can't hurt to put together a couple of study aids. Surely you all know that there are study aids for major works of literature. The student would refer to the study aid (e.g. CliffsNotes) to aid in the understanding of the primary text. You wouldn't just read the study aid without reading the original work. And so it might be a good idea to put together some study guide, glossary of terms or something like that. But such material MUST emphasise that they are merely "study aids" and that the original manual is the "primary source" and should be studied primarily. They should always encourage the reader to read the original manual, they should always direct him back to it, NOT AWAY FROM IT. In no case should the original manual itself be altered in ANY way. Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter, and I thought I'd share them with you... Harry > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:52:53 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese' > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom ____________________________________________________________ Share photos & screenshots in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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