Hi David,
Seems to me when choosing a method one should take notice of their own
intuitive wisdom/knowingness at any given point.
The method is a tool. Not to be confused with the truth one may be
seeking.
People present methods based on their own perception so all methods
should be used with discrimination.
Never to substitute for the knowness of the Being.
It appears (to me at least) different door open at different times and
no one has the absolute answer for another.
Love,
Fran
--- On *Tue, 4/5/11, David M. Pelly /<[email protected]>/* wrote:
From: David M. Pelly <[email protected]>
Subject: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'
To: [email protected], "TROM List" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 10:33 AM
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
************
Roberto,
Read John McMaster's stuff and Filbert's bridge and you will learn
that less than one tenth of one percent of Hubbard's words is true.
Only those who have the right kind of ears to hear and eyes to
see and the mind to understand it, will find that less than one
tenth of one percent that is true.
Similar applies to TROM. TROM is laced with a lot of false data,
and traps.
But a lot of truth ( good stuff, god tech, ) is contained and
hidden within the lies, false data etc.
To paraphrase Neil Armstrong as it applies to Scientology and the
sciences of enlightenment:
The truth is out there, but it is hidden and protected by many
layers of lies and guarded by assholes, lunatics and a bad reputation.
As Joe Larabell said:
Earth is an elite school, it is not for the faint hearted.
He said only about one person in a 100,000 is salvageable.
The Bible says, that many are called and few are chosen.
David
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 12:32:54 +0200
Subject: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Sorry for bluntly jumping in whilst usually only reading (and
fighting with the English language) and not even having introduced
myself. But I felt a responsibility here to offer you my opinion
for evaluation. 1. re gradient The materials of TROM, very
obviously if you think about it, triggers reactions: old
overwhelms, losses, overts, motivators - any shit you can think.
You could ease the materials down to any desired level - pictures,
comics, filmed instructions - it wouldn't help a bit. It would
trigger the bank anyway and the bank in return hinders
understanding and the whole thing goes round in circles. I am
slowly, slowly beginning to understand that PD and SD and four
legs et cetera stuff. But hey, I am on level 3, I do not need to
know more than 3. I didn't know about level 3 when I was on level
2, and I'm too lazy to reread level 4 before I am done with level
3. 2. re alterations That's making all alarm bells ring. From
observation I deduced that alterations are manifestations of games
conditions. For needed and reasonable alterations no one seems to
care... I see it happen all the time in the advertising business.
Someone comes up with a faulty idea: it passes. Someone comes up
with a great idea: it gets watered down. Why? A hundred people try
to take ownership of the idea. The creative director says: "jeah
not bad that design, but move this line here a bit to the left -
see! better now isn't it?" Now he owns it, he's in the delusion
that he's the man. Yes, I hate to admit that Dennis is so much
more clever than I am and that not in a million years I would have
come up with such stuff. But I'd rather go into the game of
getting ahead of him by completing level 5 ;-) 3. complementary
material I had planned to write some material in German, but I
dropped the idea for the moment. Because I think that's full of
booby traps too. Examples and explanations and interpretations are
the covered and therefore most dangerous way of altering things.
In that regard, a certain Mr. L. Ron was right. 4. Scn Definitions
The holy cow of Scn is the correctness of the tech. The all agree
wildly, even many of the Ex's. In my amateurish opinion, besides
all genius, there are many, many technical errors. Yes, Scn was
needed education for Dennis, but there it ends for me and Scn
becomes history. TROM may contain Scn but for me, there doesn't
exist any present association between the two subjects or any
benefit from using anything Scn. Sorry for that exhausting amount
of words... Best wishes and greetings from Switzerland Roberto
_____ Von: Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:[email protected]]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. April 2011 03:17 An: The Resolution of Mind
list Betreff: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without
'Scientologese' Hi Harry, April 4/'11 QUERY Very well put. Thanks.
So am I correct, that you wouldn't even want annotated numbered
definitions at the bottoms of the pages in the original manual? It
indicates to me to defer to and trust your judgement on this.
Thanks so much, Aarre Peltomaa [email protected] (647)
202-7267 On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Happy Harry wrote:
************* The following message is relayed to you by
[email protected] ************ Hey guys, I thought I'd add a
few cents (or pence) to this discussion concerning study aids for
TROM. Some sections of the TROM manual may be a bit hard to
understand (at first) - I'm not going to deny that. And this is
further compounded for those without a Scientology background.
But, and this is a big "but", it is not the task or responsibility
(or even the right) of this list to alter or rearrange the
original manual in any way. I'm compelled to agree with Pete in
this matter. The original text states, in the foreword: "It is of
course each person?s responsibility to fully understand the text
and apply it to themselves correctly. There is help and support
provided on a list on the internet." "It is each person's
responsibility"...I think that says it all. Furthermore (in the
section entitled 'Finale'): "When you duplicate the data, you
duplicate it exactly. Not because I am enamored with my prose
style, but because altered it could very easily become just
another trap in a universe already abundantly endowed with them."
I think it would be terribly, terribly WRONG to alter the manual
in an attempt to 'simplify' it. It would also be wrong to tell
people how to read it, what parts of it to read and it what order.
Everytime you alter something, no matter how good your intentions
may have been, you get into hot water. That being said, it can't
hurt to put together a couple of study aids. Surely you all know
that there are study aids for major works of literature. The
student would refer to the study aid (e.g. CliffsNotes) to aid in
the understanding of the primary text. You wouldn't just read the
study aid without reading the original work. And so it might be a
good idea to put together some study guide, glossary of terms or
something like that. But such material MUST emphasise that they
are merely "study aids" and that the original manual is the
"primary source" and should be studied primarily. They should
always encourage the reader to read the original manual, they
should always direct him back to it, NOT AWAY FROM IT. In no case
should the original manual itself be altered in ANY way. Anyway,
these are my thoughts on the matter, and I thought I'd share them
with you... Harry > -----Original Message----- > From:
[email protected] > Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:52:53 -0400 >
To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] needed TROM materials
without 'Scientologese' > > ************* > The following message
is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ >
_______________________________________________ > Trom mailing
list > [email protected] >
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
____________________________________________________________ Share
photos & screenshots in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at
http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1 Works in all emails,
instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks.
_______________________________________________ Trom mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Sorry for bluntly jumping in whilst usually only reading (and fighting
with the English language) and not even having introduced myself.
But I felt a responsibility here to offer you my opinion for
evaluation.
1. re gradient
The materials of TROM, very obviously if you think about it, triggers
reactions: old overwhelms, losses, overts, motivators - any shit you
can think. You could ease the materials down to any desired level
- pictures, comics, filmed instructions - it wouldn't help a bit.
It would
trigger the bank anyway and the bank in return hinders understanding
and the whole thing goes round in circles.
I am slowly, slowly beginning to understand that PD and SD and four
legs et cetera stuff. But hey, I am on level 3, I do not need to know
more than 3. I didn't know about level 3 when I was on level 2,
and I'm
too lazy to reread level 4 before I am done with level 3.
2. re alterations
That's making all alarm bells ring. From observation I deduced that
alterations are manifestations of games conditions. For needed and
reasonable alterations no one seems to care...
I see it happen all the time in the advertising business. Someone
comes up with a faulty idea: it passes. Someone comes up with
a great idea: it gets watered down. Why? A hundred people try to
take ownership of the idea. The creative director says: "jeah not bad
that design, but move this line here a bit to the left - see!
better now
isn't it?" Now he owns it, he's in the delusion that he's the man.
Yes, I hate to admit that Dennis is so much more clever than I am
and that not in a million years I would have come up with such stuff.
But I'd rather go into the game of getting ahead of him by completing
level 5 ;-)
3. complementary material
I had planned to write some material in German, but I dropped the idea
for the moment. Because I think that's full of booby traps too.
Examples
and explanations and interpretations are the covered and therefore
most
dangerous way of altering things. In that regard, a certain Mr. L.
Ron was
right.
4. Scn Definitions
The holy cow of Scn is the correctness of the tech. The all agree
wildly,
even many of the Ex's. In my amateurish opinion, besides all
genius, there
are many, many technical errors. Yes, Scn was needed education for
Dennis, but there it ends for me and Scn becomes history. TROM may
contain Scn but for me, there doesn't exist any present association
between the two subjects or any benefit from using anything Scn.
Sorry for that exhausting amount of words...
Best wishes and greetings from Switzerland
Roberto
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Von:* Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:[email protected]]
*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 5. April 2011 03:17
*An:* The Resolution of Mind list
*Betreff:* Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without
'Scientologese'
Hi Harry, April 4/'11
QUERY
Very well put. Thanks. So am I correct, that you wouldn't
even want annotated numbered definitions at the bottoms of the
pages in the original manual? It indicates to me to defer to
and trust your judgement on this.
Thanks so much,
Aarre Peltomaa
[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
(647) 202-7267
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Happy Harry
<[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>>
wrote:
*************
The following message is relayed to you by
[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
************
Hey guys,
I thought I'd add a few cents (or pence) to this
discussion concerning study aids for TROM.
Some sections of the TROM manual may be a bit hard to
understand (at first) - I'm not going to deny that.
And this is further compounded for those without a
Scientology background.
But, and this is a big "but", it is not the task or
responsibility (or even the right) of this list to alter
or rearrange the original manual in any way. I'm compelled
to agree with Pete in this matter.
The original text states, in the foreword: "It is of
course each person?s responsibility to fully understand
the text and apply it to themselves correctly. There is
help and support provided on a list on the internet."
"It is each person's responsibility"...I think that says
it all.
Furthermore (in the section entitled 'Finale'): "When you
duplicate the data, you duplicate it exactly. Not because
I am enamored with my prose style, but because altered it
could very easily become just another trap in a universe
already abundantly endowed with them."
I think it would be terribly, terribly WRONG to alter the
manual in an attempt to 'simplify' it. It would also be
wrong to tell people how to read it, what parts of it to
read and it what order. Everytime you alter something, no
matter how good your intentions may have been, you get
into hot water.
That being said, it can't hurt to put together a couple of
study aids. Surely you all know that there are study aids
for major works of literature. The student would refer to
the study aid (e.g. CliffsNotes) to aid in the
understanding of the primary text. You wouldn't just read
the study aid without reading the original work.
And so it might be a good idea to put together some study
guide, glossary of terms or something like that. But such
material MUST emphasise that they are merely "study aids"
and that the original manual is the "primary source" and
should be studied primarily. They should always encourage
the reader to read the original manual, they should always
direct him back to it, NOT AWAY FROM IT.
In no case should the original manual itself be altered in
ANY way.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter, and I thought
I'd share them with you...
Harry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
> Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:52:53 -0400
> To: [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
> Subject: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without
'Scientologese'
>
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by
[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
> ************
> _______________________________________________
> Trom mailing list
> [email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
____________________________________________________________
Share photos & screenshots in seconds...
TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at
http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1
Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and
social networks.
_______________________________________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
_______________________________________________ Trom mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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