Then why did Jesus tell many "your faith has saved you", but he never baptised anyone?
>From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Baptism
>Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:00:43 -0500
>
>Terry wrote:
> > How can I make you see what is so obvious? The flood
> > did not bring salvation. It brought death. It was
> > not meant to save . It was meant for judgment. After
> > Noah preached for 120 yeatrs without a convert, God
> > did not save the human race, He wiped them out. Many
> > millions of people were killed by water. Only Noah
> > and his kinfolk were saved, and that was not because
> > of the water. That was in spite of the water.
>
>You need to teach Peter, then, because Peter said that Noah and his
>family were saved by water:
>
>1 Peter 3:20, "... eight souls were saved by water."
>
>I do not believe that Peter got it wrong or misstated himself. This is a
>marvelous parallel once you see it. In Christ, death is brought to our
>entire world. We are buried with him in baptism and we die. Then we
>are raised to a new life. We are resurrected to a new world, so to
>speak. Can't you see it?
>
>To see that Noah was saved by that which destroyed the world is a
>wonderful revelation, and to see that it was by water, that which gives
>life, and by that which upholds all life, that is another wonderful
>insight. If you carry this further, even street preaching will make
>better sense to some.
>
>For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved,
>and in them that perish: TO THE ONE WE ARE THE SAVOUR OF DEATH UNTO
>DEATH; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is
>sufficient for these things? (2 Corinthians 2:15-16 KJV)
>
>David Miller wrote:
> >> Do you really hold to the position that Peter is
> >> not talking about water baptism in this passage?
> >> Upon what Biblical text do you take this position?
>
>Terry wrote:
> > Try 1 Peter 1:18-19 The same guy you are quoting makes
> > it clear. YOU ARE REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD! Not the blood
> > plus the water. Think about it.
>
>Of course we are redeemed by the blood, but we must apply faith in
>Christ in order to appropriate that work in our lives. Does it offend
>you to say we are saved by the blood plus faith?
>
>In any case, this passage in 1 Peter 1:18-19 in no way contradicts what
>Peter says in 3:21, "baptism ... saves us." Furthermore, 1 Peter 1:18-19
>does not indicate that 1 Peter 3:21 is not talking about water baptism.
>Do you really still believe that 1 Peter 3:21 is not talking about water
>baptism at all?
>
>Terry wrote:
> > Jesus could never have told Zacchaeus when he repented
> > "Today, salvation has come to your house". He would have
> > to have told him,"Zach, you are almost saved. Now get
> > baptized to finish the job".
>
>Don't you think Zach got baptized that day? Those who believed upon
>Christ were baptized. Why would Zach not have gotten baptized? What
>makes you so confident that Zach refused baptism?
>
>Those of us who lead new converts into baptism do not teach, "you are
>almost saved, now get baptized to finish the job." Rather, we teach men
>and women to believe upon Christ and we teach baptism as the way of
>professing their faith. Some people use a prayer to bring people to
>Christ. I use baptism because that's how Jesus taught me to do it, and
>that is what I read in Scriptures is the way the early believers and
>apostles did it.
>
>Faith naturally leads a person to want to profess faith in Christ, and
>they naturally look to baptism as this profession of faith. This is why
>the Eunuch asked Philip if he could be baptized. I have heard this
>before too. When the sinners believe, they naturally respond with, "I
>need to be baptized." Just as a man who is dirty in the natural and if
>he has come to your home he would want to wash and clean up, so the
>sinner has that natural inclination when they believe upon Christ to
>desire baptism.
>
>Terry wrote:
> > I think that when Peter used the old term "By" instead
> > of how we would say it,"From", it might have caused you
> > to put all your belief in one verse instead of looking
> > at all the verses that prove otherwise.
>
>I don't put all my belief in one verse. I believe them all. No offense
>intended, but it seems to me that you are the one who cuts out this one
>particular verse.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean about "by" versus "from." Are you talking
>about the phrase "by the resurrection"?
>
>Terry wrote:
> > You know, probably as well as anyone on this list,
> > that we are saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus
> > Christ that did for us what we could never do for ourselves,
> > wash away our sins. Think about that brother.
>
>Amen. You know that we agree on this.
>
>Peace be with you.
>David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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