[TruthTalk] Baptism

[jandgtaylor1]

David Miller wrote: Baptism is not magical and not everyone who is baptized experiences salvation. Faith in Christ is the proper focus, and baptism is a powerful way in which a new convert can express saving faith in Jesus Christ. Judy wrote: So you agree then - that baptism will not save us? dm: Have you ever known anyone to profess faith in Christ and then later turned away from Christ and went the way of the world? jt: No, but I believe it is possible because Hebrews 6:4-6 says so. dm: Would you then conclude from that observation that faith will not save us? jt: No, I would conclude from that observation that they may not have understood the gospel to begin with or they had fallen from grace because they were not as committed as they could have been, or else they had been deceived. dm: I wouldn't. I agree with Peter that baptism saves us. Why would you or anyone else disagree with Peter and the Holy Scriptures? jt: I don't disagree with Peter and the Holy Scriptures but I do disagree with Thomas Aquinas and the teachings of the RCC, which teaching baptismal regeneration is part of. dm: I certainly agree with you that the act of being immersed in water alone does not save anybody. However, baptism is not just immersion in water. We understand that faith should be present when a person enters the purifying waters of baptism <snipped the qualifiers> jt: The Bible says what it says. Either one is saved by baptismal regeneration is not a reality and will not save anyone. dm: Those who relegate baptism to an outward symbol of an inward experience that has already happened are not following the Scriptural model. jt: Why not? Without all of your qualifiers above DavidM all a person would be is wet. dm: They are following their own Protestant theology which is based upon a reaction against Roman Catholicism and its inappropriate focus upon baptism without faith in bringing about salvation. jt: All through the Pauline epistles we are assured that faith is the basis for salvation. Faith that works by love. A person walking by faith who is not baptised can ATST be saved, where as a baptised person without faith is as lost as a goose.  In your view DavidM it is impossible to follow the Holy Spirit? It sounds like if it is not the way you see it, then it must be "protestant theology?" dm: How many people who believe like you do would ever preach the gospel as:"Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins"? How many do you know who would instruct someone coming to new faith in Christ, "arise and be baptized and wash away your sins"? If they are not speaking in this way, then I suggest you consider that their theology is goofed up. jt: Actually I'm beginning to wonder what you all are teaching out there.  Is this why there appears to be so much confusion in the church and only 9% Bible literacy right now?  Peter must be goofed up also because when he stood up at the Council in Jerusalem (Acts 15:9) he said "God put no difference between us and them (the gentiles) purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they' Grace and Peace, Judy