John wrote:
... David Miller. ... A works salvationist?
I don't think so.
No, I am not a works salvationist, but I can tell by the label that we
might have some discussing to do. I believe in Christian perfection
much like John Wesley did.
John wrote:
... actually all first year greek grammars present
the kind of verb ending(s) I used in my post.
(I have Summers and Mounce on my shelves). I am
kind of startled that this would be an issue.
... Present indicative active gives us activity
WITH NO END IN VIEW. That does not mean the action
is on going but it can mean that -- and very
often does. ... Do you have reference material that
condemns "my" application of the greek tense?
I don't think so. But if so, I certainly can change
my mind.
As you are well aware, we need to consider context concerning whether or
not the continuous concept might apply. I have checked at least a dozen
translations of the verses you mentioned, and I have found nobody that
follows your translation. I have considered it myself, but I think the
context does not fit. I was simply asking you if you knew of any other
Greek scholar who would translate these verses this way. I guess the
answer is no?
Because you quoted Mounce, let me quote him concerning the present
active indicative verb. "The present active indicative verb in Greek is
basically the same as in English. It describes an action that usually
occurs in the present. It can be either a continuous ("I am studying")
or undefined ("I study") action. We recommend using a continuous
translation by default, and if it does not fit the context switch to the
undefined."
So my question still stands concerning whether or not you know of any
other Greek scholars who have translated these passages the way you
have. You used an English participle to force continuous action in the
translation. Do you know of any published translation that also has
done this?
John wrote:
... stark raving and absolute sinlessness is a
consideration in the mind of God -- not an
actual event in our lives.
So are you saying that God is deceived, that what he considers in his
mind does not correspond with reality? It almost sounds like you are
saying God is insane. I know you are not saying that. I'm just telling
you how it comes across to me.
>From my perspective, we actually do become new creatures in Christ. I
have experienced this, and I assume that others have too.
John wrote:
God CONSIDERS our faith to be righteousness.
And faith actually creates righteousness in us, as miraculously as life
came into the body of Lazarus when he was raised from the dead.
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
Hey guys:
I wouldn't know an indicative verb from a armadillo
pimple, but I hardly ever let my ignorance get in the way of giving my
opinion, so how 'bout these onions? The new testament says,"Be
perfect". It's there, no doubt about it. HOWEVER, the old
testament says,"Keep the law" with the same emphasis, and we know that no one
has ever kept the law. Both of these commands are the ideal. They
are the goal,..............but they are impossible goals! There to make
us see we need a Savior. After twenty years of preaching Christ and
suffering for Him, Paul still considered himself a sinner. I am with
Paul.
