Re: [TruthTalk] Re:APRIL FOOLS DAY???

[Wm. Taylor]

John, my first experience with Greek came under the tutelage of Mounce's Grammar. I know him personally, as he was promoting this work at the University I attended. He swung through on a regular basis to see how we were doing and if he had made himself clear in terms of presentation. This very question was asked of him, the one concerning continuous activity, nothing to do with I John in particular. The question had more to do with an English understanding of gerunds (verbal nouns) than a Greek understanding of participles. His answer was lucid: There is no gerund in Greek. Greek words appear in Greek. They only become problematic in translation. At the point of translation English is always an approximation of a Greek thought. Hence the target is too approximate as closely as we can Greek words and ideas. Hence it is not inappropriate to translate a present tense with a gerund-based English approximation. Nor is it always necessary or even possible to do this. The point is to get the present tense across the divide, if a gerund will do this then by all means use it. The point is to get it across the language barrier into English while conveying the Greek idea as closely as possible. Our problem of course is this: Ideas are always interpretive. This is the same thing I am speaking to in my pistis post. There is always an interpretive task involved any time we try to convey meaning. That task increases exponentially when trying to convey it across a language barrier.   I think the continuous case is appropriate here. While the English texts do not state it as such, that present tense idea must still be taken into view. That's my two onions worth.   Bill    ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:APRIL FOOLS DAY??? In a message dated 4/1/2004 5:19:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Because you quoted Mounce, let me quote him concerning the presentactive indicative verb.  "The present active indicative verb in Greek isbasically the same as in English.  It describes an action that usuallyoccurs in the present.  It can be either a continuous ("I am studying")or undefined ("I study") action.  We recommend using a continuoustranslation by default, and if it does not fit the context switch to theundefined."  (My, John's , emphasis) Ok  -- I am in the twilight zone here, missing something.  I took these words from Terrys quote of David Miller (I think).  I did not get this email apparently.  And this is why I am saying maybe our disagreement is semantical.  Or maybe I am just plain dumb but is not this quote saying exactly what I was saying"   Terry quotes: "The Spirit is willing, but this old flesh is weak. There you go and Terry may have said it better than I.  I do not believe in "total depravity."    When it come to being perfect, sinless, it is not that can't do.  Rather, it is because we won"t.  Romans 7  makes this abundantly clear.  The battle rages  -- one will against the other.  Anyway, Terry put it exactly.   john