On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:43:22 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Further, some of your questioning below makes it sound as though you
believe that Christ is
"up there somewhere" and we are down here
I do .. This is true. He indwells a resurrected body at the right hand of the
Father in the third
heavens - which is definitely "up there
somewhere" - and you and I are down here.
Obvious question: what of
the Holy Spirit. You do know that your theology is so
different, I really haven't
a clue as to what you believe. But it is as interesting a
conversation as those with our Mormon
friends!
jt:
How sad there is so little communication - I see the problem as doctrinal JD -
your doctrines blind you. Just take
off the doctrinal glasses and read the Bible, it's
no secret. Yes the Holy Spirit is given to those who
obey Jesus as an earnest of their
inheritance in Him.
There is the sense, in scripture, that
Jesus IS the Holy Spirit (Isa 9:6 and
II Cor 3:17).
jt: I don't believe these scriptures are saying
that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Isa 9:6 is
a prophecy about the incarnation and 2 Cor 3:17
is speaking about the Lord the Holy
Spirit not Jesus because Jesus has risen and
won't return until the Father gives the
OK.
AND that His work of saving man in the sight and mind of His Father is
somehow incomplete.......
It is for those who refuse to change allegiance
and part with the old master/husband
Who do you think we are talking about,
Judy. Some old reprobate who rejects the
Christ and rebells against all that He
stands for and wants us to be? Are you saying that
you think we are holding up those who
have an allegiance with something or someone
other than God. Come
on!!!
jt:
I don't adhere to Bills TFT doctrine that
everyone and everything was assumed into
Christ at the resurrection and that the
unassumed is also unhealed. Jesus did not die
and was not raised to heal the old
fallen creation. He is, in fact, the first born of
the
New Creation and it takes us being born
again or born of the Spirit to be in Him.
This is a reality that you Lance and
Bill never address.
Well, I am afraid I really do not
understand this. Christ died for
us while we yet sinners.
You believe that!! ???
Above , you seem to deny the purpose for The Life and Death
and
Resurrection
--- which is the healing of a fallen world. I am thinking that
you may
want to change this
wording.
jt: Where do you get the "healing of a
fallen world" part from scripture JD? God so
loved the world that he gave his only begotten
son - but then we get to the whosoever
believes - I don't think the whole world being
healed was ever an option other than
in someone's theology.
that God in Christ is only about the hope of salvation
------------- and nothing more
Exactly - It is Christ in you - the HOPE of
glory. Going further than God does is
presumption.
Wow -- you deny His eternal sonship, the
notion that He was "God on earth" and
now the efficacy of His Eternal Assignment!!!
jt:
He represented God on earth JD. He had
emptied Himself and taken upon himself
a flesh body like ours. The Words
he spoke and the works he did were all from the
Father. This idea that you
are holding to is one that from early rcc
church
fathers.
.....He did His part but that did not save a single soul
-- the rest is up to us!!!
He knows those who are his in contrast to some
of the most vocal here - "And let everyone
who names the name of Christ depart from
iniquity."
If you guys can't see the beam in your own eyes,
Oh? So those of us who don't see things your way
have beams now?
I was actually
referencing something Christ said.
jt:
I recognize that it is something Christ said but he wasn't talking about false
doctrine.
Moral issues are included.
Doctrinal issues are not??
jt: When he dealt with that there were not 144+
different denominational teachings in
what he came to introduce. There was Moses and the
prophets.
how in the world do you honestly think you are going to share in this
process of "becoming"
that is, in fact, the Message of the Gospel? JD
By obedience which is continuing in His Word which is how one becomes His
disciple;
by walking after the
spirit daily and not fulfilling the lust of the flesh; by putting off the old
man and putting on the
armour
of light the
Lord Jesus Christ; by taking every thought captive
to the obedience of
Christ; by drawing nigh to God and resisting the devil so that he will flee;
by being spiritually
minded which is life and peace; by giving all diligence to add to my faith
virtue; and to virtue the
right kind of knowledge, and to knowledge temperance, and to
temperance patience, and
to patience godliness, and to godliness brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness
love - for a start. jt
I believe "His Word " is Him -- you believe that His Word
is the KJV of the codex
determined by the early church
FAthers. AAAAhhhhheeeeeeemmmm.
jt: And how does one apprehend Him outside of His Word as written
in both Masoretic
and Majority texts or by the KJV
codex JD? Is he warm fuzzies? Is he ppl
falling out
at a Benny Hinn meeting? What is your
plumbline for reality? And BTW
scripture was
around long before the rcc
church fathers.
For the first 30 years or so, there was no NT writings of any kind --- and I mean the 27
books. When they were added to the mix, over time, NOTHING changed
in terms of
the "plumbline for reality."
jt: I would say a whole
lot changed from the second century on JD because at
that
point the professing
Church began a descent into darkness which it is having
a
difficult time coming
out of.
