Thanks a lot for encouraging me and thank you for your nice advices. as Jhon said: >But show them a framework, and they're immediately lost. im exactly the instance of this group of people, i am lost in a big world of J2EE and its frameworks, I did take your advices and have picked up some tutorials for JSP first, (if you have good one please tell me) and Im going to learn everything from the very beginning, (I HOPE IF IT IS NOT SO LATE :(( ).
so you mean I completely forget about appfuse and J2EE by now ? and somethig else is that how many months do you think it takes to finish and learn and to be prepared to be a J2EE developer? ( imagine im learning and trying everyday ) John Coleman-5 wrote: > > Meisam, > > Let me second what Nathan said - you are in the right place! Don't > feel bad at all about asking questions - if no one did that we'd > still be working in a cgi-lib directory writing perl scripts or > compiling C code. > > I *really* meant it when I said "don't give up!" A Java web app can > look very daunting at first, but soon you will realize that they are > all just little chunks that together make up one large application. > Pretty soon you will start to write your own little chunks and > integrate them into the whole. You should absolutely try to > understand the way everything works together, as Nathan said. That > is integral to your success. > > You MUST be patient - these are not frameworks that you can hope to > understand overnight. Note that the books I recommended to you total > over 1500 pages - and every one of them is useful - so you can't hope > to do this sort of application in a weekend. Your patience and > persistence will pay off in the long run, I promise. So please take > my advice as *encouragement*. Appfuse is 100% the right choice for > someone in your shoes...it's very much like training wheels for the > integration of its frameworks. You get a useful webapp right out of > the box and clearly defined entry points for modifications. You will > have many small victories on your way to learning these technologies, > and Appfuse helps you get those wins more frequently. > > All that said, I think you have set an ambitious (by that > unfortunately I mean unrealistic) goal for yourself. I've been using > appfuse and its component frameworks for a year, and programming in > Java and Hibernate for just over two years, and I would probably give > myself at least two months to do that DMS...if it were a personal > app. If it were for a customer, I'd budget at least four, depending > on the customer (see other mailing lists for dealing with > requirements/user stories and scope/feature creep). If you are > working against a hard and fast deadline, you should definitely > investigate an existing application. > > Coleman > > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:38 PM, meisam4910 wrote: > >> >> appreciate your reply, and thank you for your advice, im about to >> start a JSP >> tutorial, and will have a look at J2EE guides as well, i need to >> take some >> time, prepare myself. :) >> >> >> melinate wrote: >>> >>> You should never feel bad about asking questions!!! Questions are >>> encouraged here and even uncertain answers are encouraged. One of >>> the >>> great things about AppFuse is the willingness of the community to >>> help >>> each other out. If you have any trouble understanding something >>> please >>> ask. Anyone who reads this list and who has already figured out that >>> problem will try to help. >>> >>> I suggest you just take your time [if you can]. Follow the tutorials >>> closely and try to understand why things work as you go along. If >>> you go >>> through the tutorial a few times and read the books/documentation >>> that >>> have been recommended in this thread you should start to get it >>> even if it >>> takes a little while. >>> >>> Nathan >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "meisam4910" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:17:36 PM (GMT-0800) America/ >>> Los_Angeles >>> Subject: Re: [appfuse-user] J2EE fundumentals >>> >>> >>> Dear coleman >>> >>> I do take your advice serious but the thing is that i need to >>> learn JEE as >>> well, im not that far away from java and web applications, i have >>> done a >>> small jdbc applications for myself, and at least im familiar with >>> some >>> terms, but still have lot of problems with JSTL and tag libs which >>> i found >>> them very difficult to learn and scary to go for :( .anyways the >>> reason i >>> came after java web based frameworks was that i was learning >>> little by >>> little about web applications and jdbc connections, one day i was >>> working >>> at >>> home, suddenly i saw an article (why re-inventing the wheel ?) it >>> sounded >>> very nice to me, it was about frameworks and the ready >>> applications, i >>> found >>> myself stupid to build the entire web application from the scratch, i >>> started to learn about the frameworks although it was so early to >>> learn >>> them, and i suppose it is still too early. fortunately people really >>> helped >>> me a lot here and in other frameworks forums, during last week i >>> learned a >>> lot of stuff, the problem is that i need to continue building my web >>> application(Document management system), and i can`t ignore the >>> sweetness >>> and functionalities of the frameworks and JEE, thats why im >>> disturbing >>> people here a lot with a lot of questions and beginners questions >>> (let me >>> thank matt to be patient enough), and i want to build the application >>> based >>> on struts with eclipse IDE and help of appfuse. I will have a lot of >>> questions and i know this forum is not suitable for me as a >>> beginner and >>> i >>> apologize again for asking lot of beginners questions step b step >>> during >>> my >>> learning,i really dun like the situation, i would like to go for JSP, >>> servlets, then J2EE ,...first but i kind of like the appfuse and its >>> functionlities and also struts, i really want to learn it and i know >>> achieving this sounds very difficult by now. >>> >>> >>> John Coleman-5 wrote: >>>> >>>> Meisam, >>>> >>>> I would recommend that you start with the JSP and servlet tutorials >>>> rather than jumping right into the deep end. I admire that you have >>>> taken such a plunge; there is so much to learn here that you head >>>> will soon be spinning (if it's not already). Appfuse uses a number >>>> of frameworks that are non-trivial for the beginning Java developer. >>>> >>>> I'd recommend that you skip the JEE stuff altogether, honestly. >>>> Appfuse stays away from the overhead of requiring a full JEE app >>>> server and I think you'll find that most developers who have been >>>> exposed to open source Java frameworks would agree that's the best >>>> strategy for a beginner. If you find you do need to go the JEE >>>> route, none of the experience you gain by using Appfuse will have >>>> gone to waste; JEE is moving in the direction of the lighter, >>>> better, >>>> faster frameworks. >>>> >>>> You'd do well to pick up a few books, namely Spring in Action, Java >>>> Persistence with Hibernate, anything written by Rod Johnson, and >>>> "Better Builds With Maven 2." The Maven book is a free download. >>>> You >>>> will find that your journey is initially like learning a foreign >>>> language by moving to a foreign country. Don't give up and one day >>>> you'll realize that you just "get it" and you aren't re-reading >>>> every >>>> page again and again. >>>> >>>> Good luck, >>>> >>>> Coleman >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2007, at 12:43 PM, meisam4910 wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> thank you and im fan of this website, its very good, have a look >>>>> dude; >>>>> www.roseindia.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike Horwitz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am a fan of the Sun tutorials. They are pretty comprehensive and >>>>>> should >>>>>> get you going reasonably quickly: >>>>>> http://java.sun.com/javaee/reference/tutorials/ (pick the Java EE >>>>>> version >>>>>> appropriate for you). >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/1/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> guys, can anybody suggest a powerful and comprehensive tutorial >>>>>>> on J2EE >>>>>>> kick >>>>>>> start ? for example now when i want to start a project i see many >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> inside the project such as, beans, xml files, sources,... i want >>>>>>> to know >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> relationships between these elements, and how they communicate >>>>>>> with each >>>>>>> other ? i have read a lot about the J2EE, but still need to >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> structure of an web application directory, a common structure and >>>>>>> essential >>>>>>> things inside the directory. thank you. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals- >>>>>>> tf4549368s2369.html#a12982474 >>>>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >>>>> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12982823 >>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> -- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12986783 >>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12989450 >> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12994055 Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
