Meisam, it's a wide world of frameworks and J2EE - don't give up. It's going to take time - but you don't have to give up one thing for another in terms of studying.
Read up on the fundamentals - then pick up a few frameworks. Using the frameworks is instructive - and that's why tools like AppFuse are useful - they help you get started, and show you some patterns for using those frameworks. Here's the best part. A long time ago, a programmer could learn one language and be happy that he had studied enough for his career. Now, the world is changing on a regular basis. You never stop learning, never stop studying, never stop trying new things. Just when you think you know a lot, you get to start again. That's the fun of it - it's like being a child again every day. On 10/2/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > SO as a conclusion to our discussion, I would say: > > I start JSP and servlet first, then J2EE fundumentals, then Struts, then > appfuse... > is that still ambitious list ? ;-) > > but how about my DMS :-( > > can i use existing DMSes but in a way that no body understands I have used > them ? (sorry to say this :-D ) > > > > John Coleman-5 wrote: > > > > Meisam, > > > > Let me second what Nathan said - you are in the right place! Don't > > feel bad at all about asking questions - if no one did that we'd > > still be working in a cgi-lib directory writing perl scripts or > > compiling C code. > > > > I *really* meant it when I said "don't give up!" A Java web app can > > look very daunting at first, but soon you will realize that they are > > all just little chunks that together make up one large application. > > Pretty soon you will start to write your own little chunks and > > integrate them into the whole. You should absolutely try to > > understand the way everything works together, as Nathan said. That > > is integral to your success. > > > > You MUST be patient - these are not frameworks that you can hope to > > understand overnight. Note that the books I recommended to you total > > over 1500 pages - and every one of them is useful - so you can't hope > > to do this sort of application in a weekend. Your patience and > > persistence will pay off in the long run, I promise. So please take > > my advice as *encouragement*. Appfuse is 100% the right choice for > > someone in your shoes...it's very much like training wheels for the > > integration of its frameworks. You get a useful webapp right out of > > the box and clearly defined entry points for modifications. You will > > have many small victories on your way to learning these technologies, > > and Appfuse helps you get those wins more frequently. > > > > All that said, I think you have set an ambitious (by that > > unfortunately I mean unrealistic) goal for yourself. I've been using > > appfuse and its component frameworks for a year, and programming in > > Java and Hibernate for just over two years, and I would probably give > > myself at least two months to do that DMS...if it were a personal > > app. If it were for a customer, I'd budget at least four, depending > > on the customer (see other mailing lists for dealing with > > requirements/user stories and scope/feature creep). If you are > > working against a hard and fast deadline, you should definitely > > investigate an existing application. > > > > Coleman > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:38 PM, meisam4910 wrote: > > > >> > >> appreciate your reply, and thank you for your advice, im about to > >> start a JSP > >> tutorial, and will have a look at J2EE guides as well, i need to > >> take some > >> time, prepare myself. :) > >> > >> > >> melinate wrote: > >>> > >>> You should never feel bad about asking questions!!! Questions are > >>> encouraged here and even uncertain answers are encouraged. One of > >>> the > >>> great things about AppFuse is the willingness of the community to > >>> help > >>> each other out. If you have any trouble understanding something > >>> please > >>> ask. Anyone who reads this list and who has already figured out that > >>> problem will try to help. > >>> > >>> I suggest you just take your time [if you can]. Follow the tutorials > >>> closely and try to understand why things work as you go along. If > >>> you go > >>> through the tutorial a few times and read the books/documentation > >>> that > >>> have been recommended in this thread you should start to get it > >>> even if it > >>> takes a little while. > >>> > >>> Nathan > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "meisam4910" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:17:36 PM (GMT-0800) America/ > >>> Los_Angeles > >>> Subject: Re: [appfuse-user] J2EE fundumentals > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear coleman > >>> > >>> I do take your advice serious but the thing is that i need to > >>> learn JEE as > >>> well, im not that far away from java and web applications, i have > >>> done a > >>> small jdbc applications for myself, and at least im familiar with > >>> some > >>> terms, but still have lot of problems with JSTL and tag libs which > >>> i found > >>> them very difficult to learn and scary to go for :( .anyways the > >>> reason i > >>> came after java web based frameworks was that i was learning > >>> little by > >>> little about web applications and jdbc connections, one day i was > >>> working > >>> at > >>> home, suddenly i saw an article (why re-inventing the wheel ?) it > >>> sounded > >>> very nice to me, it was about frameworks and the ready > >>> applications, i > >>> found > >>> myself stupid to build the entire web application from the scratch, i > >>> started to learn about the frameworks although it was so early to > >>> learn > >>> them, and i suppose it is still too early. fortunately people really > >>> helped > >>> me a lot here and in other frameworks forums, during last week i > >>> learned a > >>> lot of stuff, the problem is that i need to continue building my web > >>> application(Document management system), and i can`t ignore the > >>> sweetness > >>> and functionalities of the frameworks and JEE, thats why im > >>> disturbing > >>> people here a lot with a lot of questions and beginners questions > >>> (let me > >>> thank matt to be patient enough), and i want to build the application > >>> based > >>> on struts with eclipse IDE and help of appfuse. I will have a lot of > >>> questions and i know this forum is not suitable for me as a > >>> beginner and > >>> i > >>> apologize again for asking lot of beginners questions step b step > >>> during > >>> my > >>> learning,i really dun like the situation, i would like to go for JSP, > >>> servlets, then J2EE ,...first but i kind of like the appfuse and its > >>> functionlities and also struts, i really want to learn it and i know > >>> achieving this sounds very difficult by now. > >>> > >>> > >>> John Coleman-5 wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Meisam, > >>>> > >>>> I would recommend that you start with the JSP and servlet tutorials > >>>> rather than jumping right into the deep end. I admire that you have > >>>> taken such a plunge; there is so much to learn here that you head > >>>> will soon be spinning (if it's not already). Appfuse uses a number > >>>> of frameworks that are non-trivial for the beginning Java developer. > >>>> > >>>> I'd recommend that you skip the JEE stuff altogether, honestly. > >>>> Appfuse stays away from the overhead of requiring a full JEE app > >>>> server and I think you'll find that most developers who have been > >>>> exposed to open source Java frameworks would agree that's the best > >>>> strategy for a beginner. If you find you do need to go the JEE > >>>> route, none of the experience you gain by using Appfuse will have > >>>> gone to waste; JEE is moving in the direction of the lighter, > >>>> better, > >>>> faster frameworks. > >>>> > >>>> You'd do well to pick up a few books, namely Spring in Action, Java > >>>> Persistence with Hibernate, anything written by Rod Johnson, and > >>>> "Better Builds With Maven 2." The Maven book is a free download. > >>>> You > >>>> will find that your journey is initially like learning a foreign > >>>> language by moving to a foreign country. Don't give up and one day > >>>> you'll realize that you just "get it" and you aren't re-reading > >>>> every > >>>> page again and again. > >>>> > >>>> Good luck, > >>>> > >>>> Coleman > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Oct 1, 2007, at 12:43 PM, meisam4910 wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> thank you and im fan of this website, its very good, have a look > >>>>> dude; > >>>>> www.roseindia.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mike Horwitz wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am a fan of the Sun tutorials. They are pretty comprehensive and > >>>>>> should > >>>>>> get you going reasonably quickly: > >>>>>> http://java.sun.com/javaee/reference/tutorials/ (pick the Java EE > >>>>>> version > >>>>>> appropriate for you). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mike. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/1/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> guys, can anybody suggest a powerful and comprehensive tutorial > >>>>>>> on J2EE > >>>>>>> kick > >>>>>>> start ? for example now when i want to start a project i see many > >>>>>>> things > >>>>>>> are > >>>>>>> inside the project such as, beans, xml files, sources,... i want > >>>>>>> to know > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> relationships between these elements, and how they communicate > >>>>>>> with each > >>>>>>> other ? i have read a lot about the J2EE, but still need to > >>>>>>> understand > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> structure of an web application directory, a common structure and > >>>>>>> essential > >>>>>>> things inside the directory. thank you. > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> View this message in context: > >>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals- > >>>>>>> tf4549368s2369.html#a12982474 > >>>>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> - > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- > >>>>> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12982823 > >>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> -- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> - > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> View this message in context: > >>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12986783 > >>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- > >> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12989450 > >> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12994410 > Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
