SO as a conclusion to our discussion, I would say: I start JSP and servlet first, then J2EE fundumentals, then Struts, then appfuse... is that still ambitious list ? ;-)
but how about my DMS :-( can i use existing DMSes but in a way that no body understands I have used them ? (sorry to say this :-D ) John Coleman-5 wrote: > > Meisam, > > Let me second what Nathan said - you are in the right place! Don't > feel bad at all about asking questions - if no one did that we'd > still be working in a cgi-lib directory writing perl scripts or > compiling C code. > > I *really* meant it when I said "don't give up!" A Java web app can > look very daunting at first, but soon you will realize that they are > all just little chunks that together make up one large application. > Pretty soon you will start to write your own little chunks and > integrate them into the whole. You should absolutely try to > understand the way everything works together, as Nathan said. That > is integral to your success. > > You MUST be patient - these are not frameworks that you can hope to > understand overnight. Note that the books I recommended to you total > over 1500 pages - and every one of them is useful - so you can't hope > to do this sort of application in a weekend. Your patience and > persistence will pay off in the long run, I promise. So please take > my advice as *encouragement*. Appfuse is 100% the right choice for > someone in your shoes...it's very much like training wheels for the > integration of its frameworks. You get a useful webapp right out of > the box and clearly defined entry points for modifications. You will > have many small victories on your way to learning these technologies, > and Appfuse helps you get those wins more frequently. > > All that said, I think you have set an ambitious (by that > unfortunately I mean unrealistic) goal for yourself. I've been using > appfuse and its component frameworks for a year, and programming in > Java and Hibernate for just over two years, and I would probably give > myself at least two months to do that DMS...if it were a personal > app. If it were for a customer, I'd budget at least four, depending > on the customer (see other mailing lists for dealing with > requirements/user stories and scope/feature creep). If you are > working against a hard and fast deadline, you should definitely > investigate an existing application. > > Coleman > > > On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:38 PM, meisam4910 wrote: > >> >> appreciate your reply, and thank you for your advice, im about to >> start a JSP >> tutorial, and will have a look at J2EE guides as well, i need to >> take some >> time, prepare myself. :) >> >> >> melinate wrote: >>> >>> You should never feel bad about asking questions!!! Questions are >>> encouraged here and even uncertain answers are encouraged. One of >>> the >>> great things about AppFuse is the willingness of the community to >>> help >>> each other out. If you have any trouble understanding something >>> please >>> ask. Anyone who reads this list and who has already figured out that >>> problem will try to help. >>> >>> I suggest you just take your time [if you can]. Follow the tutorials >>> closely and try to understand why things work as you go along. If >>> you go >>> through the tutorial a few times and read the books/documentation >>> that >>> have been recommended in this thread you should start to get it >>> even if it >>> takes a little while. >>> >>> Nathan >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "meisam4910" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:17:36 PM (GMT-0800) America/ >>> Los_Angeles >>> Subject: Re: [appfuse-user] J2EE fundumentals >>> >>> >>> Dear coleman >>> >>> I do take your advice serious but the thing is that i need to >>> learn JEE as >>> well, im not that far away from java and web applications, i have >>> done a >>> small jdbc applications for myself, and at least im familiar with >>> some >>> terms, but still have lot of problems with JSTL and tag libs which >>> i found >>> them very difficult to learn and scary to go for :( .anyways the >>> reason i >>> came after java web based frameworks was that i was learning >>> little by >>> little about web applications and jdbc connections, one day i was >>> working >>> at >>> home, suddenly i saw an article (why re-inventing the wheel ?) it >>> sounded >>> very nice to me, it was about frameworks and the ready >>> applications, i >>> found >>> myself stupid to build the entire web application from the scratch, i >>> started to learn about the frameworks although it was so early to >>> learn >>> them, and i suppose it is still too early. fortunately people really >>> helped >>> me a lot here and in other frameworks forums, during last week i >>> learned a >>> lot of stuff, the problem is that i need to continue building my web >>> application(Document management system), and i can`t ignore the >>> sweetness >>> and functionalities of the frameworks and JEE, thats why im >>> disturbing >>> people here a lot with a lot of questions and beginners questions >>> (let me >>> thank matt to be patient enough), and i want to build the application >>> based >>> on struts with eclipse IDE and help of appfuse. I will have a lot of >>> questions and i know this forum is not suitable for me as a >>> beginner and >>> i >>> apologize again for asking lot of beginners questions step b step >>> during >>> my >>> learning,i really dun like the situation, i would like to go for JSP, >>> servlets, then J2EE ,...first but i kind of like the appfuse and its >>> functionlities and also struts, i really want to learn it and i know >>> achieving this sounds very difficult by now. >>> >>> >>> John Coleman-5 wrote: >>>> >>>> Meisam, >>>> >>>> I would recommend that you start with the JSP and servlet tutorials >>>> rather than jumping right into the deep end. I admire that you have >>>> taken such a plunge; there is so much to learn here that you head >>>> will soon be spinning (if it's not already). Appfuse uses a number >>>> of frameworks that are non-trivial for the beginning Java developer. >>>> >>>> I'd recommend that you skip the JEE stuff altogether, honestly. >>>> Appfuse stays away from the overhead of requiring a full JEE app >>>> server and I think you'll find that most developers who have been >>>> exposed to open source Java frameworks would agree that's the best >>>> strategy for a beginner. If you find you do need to go the JEE >>>> route, none of the experience you gain by using Appfuse will have >>>> gone to waste; JEE is moving in the direction of the lighter, >>>> better, >>>> faster frameworks. >>>> >>>> You'd do well to pick up a few books, namely Spring in Action, Java >>>> Persistence with Hibernate, anything written by Rod Johnson, and >>>> "Better Builds With Maven 2." The Maven book is a free download. >>>> You >>>> will find that your journey is initially like learning a foreign >>>> language by moving to a foreign country. Don't give up and one day >>>> you'll realize that you just "get it" and you aren't re-reading >>>> every >>>> page again and again. >>>> >>>> Good luck, >>>> >>>> Coleman >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 1, 2007, at 12:43 PM, meisam4910 wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> thank you and im fan of this website, its very good, have a look >>>>> dude; >>>>> www.roseindia.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike Horwitz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am a fan of the Sun tutorials. They are pretty comprehensive and >>>>>> should >>>>>> get you going reasonably quickly: >>>>>> http://java.sun.com/javaee/reference/tutorials/ (pick the Java EE >>>>>> version >>>>>> appropriate for you). >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/1/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> guys, can anybody suggest a powerful and comprehensive tutorial >>>>>>> on J2EE >>>>>>> kick >>>>>>> start ? for example now when i want to start a project i see many >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> inside the project such as, beans, xml files, sources,... i want >>>>>>> to know >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> relationships between these elements, and how they communicate >>>>>>> with each >>>>>>> other ? i have read a lot about the J2EE, but still need to >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> structure of an web application directory, a common structure and >>>>>>> essential >>>>>>> things inside the directory. thank you. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals- >>>>>>> tf4549368s2369.html#a12982474 >>>>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >>>>> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12982823 >>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> -- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12986783 >>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12989450 >> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12994410 Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
