I suppose I need to do a lot of things, and I must prepare myself for a long way, for sure I dun give up. :) thank you John.
John Kwon wrote: > > Meisam, it's a wide world of frameworks and J2EE - don't give up. > It's going to take time - but you don't have to give up one thing for > another in terms of studying. > > Read up on the fundamentals - then pick up a few frameworks. > > Using the frameworks is instructive - and that's why tools like AppFuse > are > useful - they help you get started, and show you some patterns for using > those frameworks. > > Here's the best part. A long time ago, a programmer could learn one > language and be happy that he had studied enough for his career. > > Now, the world is changing on a regular basis. You never stop learning, > never stop studying, never stop trying new things. > > Just when you think you know a lot, you get to start again. That's the > fun > of it - it's like being a child again every day. > > On 10/2/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> SO as a conclusion to our discussion, I would say: >> >> I start JSP and servlet first, then J2EE fundumentals, then Struts, then >> appfuse... >> is that still ambitious list ? ;-) >> >> but how about my DMS :-( >> >> can i use existing DMSes but in a way that no body understands I have >> used >> them ? (sorry to say this :-D ) >> >> >> >> John Coleman-5 wrote: >> > >> > Meisam, >> > >> > Let me second what Nathan said - you are in the right place! Don't >> > feel bad at all about asking questions - if no one did that we'd >> > still be working in a cgi-lib directory writing perl scripts or >> > compiling C code. >> > >> > I *really* meant it when I said "don't give up!" A Java web app can >> > look very daunting at first, but soon you will realize that they are >> > all just little chunks that together make up one large application. >> > Pretty soon you will start to write your own little chunks and >> > integrate them into the whole. You should absolutely try to >> > understand the way everything works together, as Nathan said. That >> > is integral to your success. >> > >> > You MUST be patient - these are not frameworks that you can hope to >> > understand overnight. Note that the books I recommended to you total >> > over 1500 pages - and every one of them is useful - so you can't hope >> > to do this sort of application in a weekend. Your patience and >> > persistence will pay off in the long run, I promise. So please take >> > my advice as *encouragement*. Appfuse is 100% the right choice for >> > someone in your shoes...it's very much like training wheels for the >> > integration of its frameworks. You get a useful webapp right out of >> > the box and clearly defined entry points for modifications. You will >> > have many small victories on your way to learning these technologies, >> > and Appfuse helps you get those wins more frequently. >> > >> > All that said, I think you have set an ambitious (by that >> > unfortunately I mean unrealistic) goal for yourself. I've been using >> > appfuse and its component frameworks for a year, and programming in >> > Java and Hibernate for just over two years, and I would probably give >> > myself at least two months to do that DMS...if it were a personal >> > app. If it were for a customer, I'd budget at least four, depending >> > on the customer (see other mailing lists for dealing with >> > requirements/user stories and scope/feature creep). If you are >> > working against a hard and fast deadline, you should definitely >> > investigate an existing application. >> > >> > Coleman >> > >> > >> > On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:38 PM, meisam4910 wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> appreciate your reply, and thank you for your advice, im about to >> >> start a JSP >> >> tutorial, and will have a look at J2EE guides as well, i need to >> >> take some >> >> time, prepare myself. :) >> >> >> >> >> >> melinate wrote: >> >>> >> >>> You should never feel bad about asking questions!!! Questions are >> >>> encouraged here and even uncertain answers are encouraged. One of >> >>> the >> >>> great things about AppFuse is the willingness of the community to >> >>> help >> >>> each other out. If you have any trouble understanding something >> >>> please >> >>> ask. Anyone who reads this list and who has already figured out that >> >>> problem will try to help. >> >>> >> >>> I suggest you just take your time [if you can]. Follow the tutorials >> >>> closely and try to understand why things work as you go along. If >> >>> you go >> >>> through the tutorial a few times and read the books/documentation >> >>> that >> >>> have been recommended in this thread you should start to get it >> >>> even if it >> >>> takes a little while. >> >>> >> >>> Nathan >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "meisam4910" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 1:17:36 PM (GMT-0800) America/ >> >>> Los_Angeles >> >>> Subject: Re: [appfuse-user] J2EE fundumentals >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dear coleman >> >>> >> >>> I do take your advice serious but the thing is that i need to >> >>> learn JEE as >> >>> well, im not that far away from java and web applications, i have >> >>> done a >> >>> small jdbc applications for myself, and at least im familiar with >> >>> some >> >>> terms, but still have lot of problems with JSTL and tag libs which >> >>> i found >> >>> them very difficult to learn and scary to go for :( .anyways the >> >>> reason i >> >>> came after java web based frameworks was that i was learning >> >>> little by >> >>> little about web applications and jdbc connections, one day i was >> >>> working >> >>> at >> >>> home, suddenly i saw an article (why re-inventing the wheel ?) it >> >>> sounded >> >>> very nice to me, it was about frameworks and the ready >> >>> applications, i >> >>> found >> >>> myself stupid to build the entire web application from the scratch, i >> >>> started to learn about the frameworks although it was so early to >> >>> learn >> >>> them, and i suppose it is still too early. fortunately people really >> >>> helped >> >>> me a lot here and in other frameworks forums, during last week i >> >>> learned a >> >>> lot of stuff, the problem is that i need to continue building my web >> >>> application(Document management system), and i can`t ignore the >> >>> sweetness >> >>> and functionalities of the frameworks and JEE, thats why im >> >>> disturbing >> >>> people here a lot with a lot of questions and beginners questions >> >>> (let me >> >>> thank matt to be patient enough), and i want to build the application >> >>> based >> >>> on struts with eclipse IDE and help of appfuse. I will have a lot of >> >>> questions and i know this forum is not suitable for me as a >> >>> beginner and >> >>> i >> >>> apologize again for asking lot of beginners questions step b step >> >>> during >> >>> my >> >>> learning,i really dun like the situation, i would like to go for JSP, >> >>> servlets, then J2EE ,...first but i kind of like the appfuse and its >> >>> functionlities and also struts, i really want to learn it and i know >> >>> achieving this sounds very difficult by now. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> John Coleman-5 wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Meisam, >> >>>> >> >>>> I would recommend that you start with the JSP and servlet tutorials >> >>>> rather than jumping right into the deep end. I admire that you have >> >>>> taken such a plunge; there is so much to learn here that you head >> >>>> will soon be spinning (if it's not already). Appfuse uses a number >> >>>> of frameworks that are non-trivial for the beginning Java developer. >> >>>> >> >>>> I'd recommend that you skip the JEE stuff altogether, honestly. >> >>>> Appfuse stays away from the overhead of requiring a full JEE app >> >>>> server and I think you'll find that most developers who have been >> >>>> exposed to open source Java frameworks would agree that's the best >> >>>> strategy for a beginner. If you find you do need to go the JEE >> >>>> route, none of the experience you gain by using Appfuse will have >> >>>> gone to waste; JEE is moving in the direction of the lighter, >> >>>> better, >> >>>> faster frameworks. >> >>>> >> >>>> You'd do well to pick up a few books, namely Spring in Action, Java >> >>>> Persistence with Hibernate, anything written by Rod Johnson, and >> >>>> "Better Builds With Maven 2." The Maven book is a free download. >> >>>> You >> >>>> will find that your journey is initially like learning a foreign >> >>>> language by moving to a foreign country. Don't give up and one day >> >>>> you'll realize that you just "get it" and you aren't re-reading >> >>>> every >> >>>> page again and again. >> >>>> >> >>>> Good luck, >> >>>> >> >>>> Coleman >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Oct 1, 2007, at 12:43 PM, meisam4910 wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> thank you and im fan of this website, its very good, have a look >> >>>>> dude; >> >>>>> www.roseindia.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Mike Horwitz wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I am a fan of the Sun tutorials. They are pretty comprehensive and >> >>>>>> should >> >>>>>> get you going reasonably quickly: >> >>>>>> http://java.sun.com/javaee/reference/tutorials/ (pick the Java EE >> >>>>>> version >> >>>>>> appropriate for you). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mike. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 10/1/07, meisam4910 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> guys, can anybody suggest a powerful and comprehensive tutorial >> >>>>>>> on J2EE >> >>>>>>> kick >> >>>>>>> start ? for example now when i want to start a project i see many >> >>>>>>> things >> >>>>>>> are >> >>>>>>> inside the project such as, beans, xml files, sources,... i want >> >>>>>>> to know >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> relationships between these elements, and how they communicate >> >>>>>>> with each >> >>>>>>> other ? i have read a lot about the J2EE, but still need to >> >>>>>>> understand >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> structure of an web application directory, a common structure and >> >>>>>>> essential >> >>>>>>> things inside the directory. thank you. >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> View this message in context: >> >>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals- >> >>>>>>> tf4549368s2369.html#a12982474 >> >>>>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>> --- >> >>>>>>> - >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >> >>>>> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12982823 >> >>>>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> - >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> View this message in context: >> >>> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12986783 >> >>> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >>> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE- >> >> fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12989450 >> >> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12994410 >> Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/J2EE-fundumentals-tf4549368s2369.html#a12998364 Sent from the AppFuse - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
