VACList-Digest Monday, February 11, 2002 Issue 209
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
2. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
3. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
4. Another Avion Pick-Up Camper on e-bay
5. Re: Another Avion Pick-Up Camper on e-bay
6. Fw: Informal Poll
7. Re: Fw: Informal Poll
8. Re: Another idea on black water tanks
9. Re:
10. Re: Another idea on black water tanks
11. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
12. Email while traveling
13. WBCCI membership revisited
14. Re: Email while traveling
15. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
16. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
17. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
18. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
19. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
20. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
21. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
22. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
23. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
24. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
25. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
26. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
27. Re: WBCCI membership revisited
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:52:16 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:02:07 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
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SORRY i HIT THE WRONG BUTTON
Laminating epoxy should be used to laminate fibderglass after the pinitrating
epoxy has completly cured A light sandinf on the serface with 50-60 grit
sandpaper helps adsion. A good filler can be made with very fine sawdust(I
save the sanding dust from sanding to make filler.If strength is not a factor
I have used corn sterct to make a filler. In the old days we used to have
bags of powdered asbostas to make filler we didn't know the dangers. Fiber
glass coatings sell different types of fillers check their catalog. If you
lived closer i would be glad to lend a hand.
Jim Smith
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">SORRY i HIT THE WRONG BUTTON<BR>
Laminating epoxy should be used to laminate fibderglass after the pinitrating epoxy
has completly cured A light sandinf on the serface with 50-60 grit sandpaper helps
adsion. A good filler can be made with very fine sawdust(I save the sanding dust from
saJim Smith</P></FONT></HTML>
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Message Number: 3
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:18:47 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
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In many years around the boating industry I have never herd of naval plywood
. .Are you thinking of marine plywood? marine plywood differs (Generaly Fir)
from exterior in only a few respects.
! both faces are clear fir.
2 there are no voids of any kind on the inner plys.
3 It is much more expencive.
Both exterior and marine pllywood use the same glue.
If eather is not sealed from moisture especially around the edges each
willill rot out at the same rate.
my quarrel with airstream is that they were too cheep to use any rotproffing
be it preserive or epoxy saturation or other sealer to prevent the rotting
of the floors
Jim Smith
1965 tradewind(the Silver Abaltross)
1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In many years around the boating industry I have never herd of
naval plywood .Are you thinking of marine plywood? marine plywood differs (Generaly
Fir)! both faces are clear fir.<BR>
2 there are no voids of any kind on the inner plys.<BR>
3 It is much more expencive.<BR>
Both exterior and marine pllywood use the same glue. <BR>
If eather is not sealed from moisture especially around the edges each willill rot out
at the same rate.<BR>
my quarrel with airstream is that they were too cheep to use any rotproffing be
it preserive or epoxy saturation or other sealer to prevent the rotting of the
floors <BR>
<BR>
Jim Smith <BR>
1965 tradewind(the Silver Abaltross)<BR>
1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel</P></FONT></HTML>
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Message Number: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:27:39 -0500
From: "Joe Insinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Another Avion Pick-Up Camper on e-bay
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E-Bay Item # 1804299400
Hey Daisy, this one's in Vermont!
Joe Insinga
'61 Bambi
"Out of chaos, comes order" - F. Nietzsche
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>E-Bay Item # 1804299400</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hey Daisy, this one's in Vermont!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joe Insinga</DIV>
<DIV>'61 Bambi</DIV>
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<DIV>"Out of chaos, comes order" - F. Nietzsche</DIV>
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Message Number: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:34:02 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Avion Pick-Up Camper on e-bay
Yikes, am I in trouble now.
The other one went to $4,000 plus !
thanks Joe, (I think...)
> Joe Insinga wrote:
>
> E-Bay Item # 1804299400
>
> Hey Daisy, this one's in Vermont!
>
> Joe Insinga
> '61 Bambi
>
> "Out of chaos, comes order" - F. Nietzsche
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:10:10 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: Informal Poll
Dave, I tried to contact you offlist, but it was bounced back.
Scott
> Dave,
>
> The midwest multi region VAC rally will NOT become a reality this year.
Feel
> free to try to put something together. The people who were trying to plan
> the rally are too busy to put it together.
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:23 PM
> Subject: [VAC] Informal Poll
>
>
> > Greetings and Happy New Years to all!
> >
> > I am looking into setting up a 2-3 day Vintage rally in Southeastern
> > Indiana, near the Riverboat Casinos on the Ohio River.
> >
> > There is a nice State park nearby we could possibly use, but some
choices
> > have to be made.
> >
> > Would you rather:
> >
> > A - Have all the trailers together in one area, with a shelter house
near
> > by, but have to dry camp (2-3 days). There would be water near by, as
well
> > as a dump station.
> >
> > or
> >
> > B - Have full hookups and a shower house, but our trailers wouldn't
> > necessarily be together in a group, and we wouldn't have a shelter
nearby.
> >
> > or
> >
> > C - Find another location where we would have hookups AND be together.
> >
> > Please send me an e-mail, off list, to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and let me
> > know your opinion.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > WBCCI: 5074
> >
> > 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> > Cincinnati, Ohio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
> >
> > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:41:09 -0500
From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Fw: Informal Poll
Scott,
Sorry to hear y'all wernt able to get it together....
I will probably try to set something up for this September or October.
Dave
At 09:10 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Dave, I tried to contact you offlist, but it was bounced back.
>
>Scott
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > The midwest multi region VAC rally will NOT become a reality this year.
>Feel
> > free to try to put something together. The people who were trying to plan
> > the rally are too busy to put it together.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:23 PM
> > Subject: [VAC] Informal Poll
> >
> >
> > > Greetings and Happy New Years to all!
> > >
> > > I am looking into setting up a 2-3 day Vintage rally in Southeastern
> > > Indiana, near the Riverboat Casinos on the Ohio River.
> > >
> > > There is a nice State park nearby we could possibly use, but some
>choices
> > > have to be made.
> > >
> > > Would you rather:
> > >
> > > A - Have all the trailers together in one area, with a shelter house
>near
> > > by, but have to dry camp (2-3 days). There would be water near by, as
>well
> > > as a dump station.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > B - Have full hookups and a shower house, but our trailers wouldn't
> > > necessarily be together in a group, and we wouldn't have a shelter
>nearby.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > C - Find another location where we would have hookups AND be together.
> > >
> > > Please send me an e-mail, off list, to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and let me
> > > know your opinion.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > WBCCI: 5074
> > >
> > > 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> > > Cincinnati, Ohio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> > > http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
> > >
> > > When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
>http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
>When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
__________________________________________________________________________
Dave Lowrey | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying hard to recreate what's never been created...
------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:58:45 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Another idea on black water tanks
Having used a Porta Potti for boondocking, which uses the same idea, the
bottom compartment detaches to carry to sewer dump or toilet , I find it easy
and not as bad as you might think. The chemicals that you use tend to break
down the solids and cover the odors quite well. I would rather deal with
this little tank than the big one in my GT. Of course, I am of the generation
that grew up with a thunder mug under the bed for cold nights when it was too
bad to go out to the outhouse (grew up poor in New England) so dealing with
my own s--- is not a big deal anyway!
Just Plain Polly
1964 Globe Trotter
Colorado
WBCCI 7113
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:44:49 -0500
From: "Jeanne Provencher, GRI, Realtor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re:
PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR E MAIL LIST....THANK YOU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC]
VACList-Digest Sunday, February 10, 2002 Issue 208
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Penetrating Epoxy
2. Question about penetrating epoxy
3. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
4. Re: Penetrating Epoxy
5. Re: Tanks for everything
6. FW: Tanks for everything
7. rust stains on Caravel
8. Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
9. Re: Tanks for everything
10. Another idea on black water tanks
11. Re:
12. Re: Another idea on black water tanks
13. Re: HWH Cover
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 19:32:59 -0600
From: Dan Weeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Penetrating Epoxy
Jim Smith's response pretty well sums it up, But I'd add one more thing:
Instead of fiberglass cloth, some of us do a two-stage repair: After
saturating the wood with penetrating epoxy and letting it cure, we mix up a
paste made of epoxy and structural filler (west system epoxies sell this
stuff. Yes, West is some of the expensive stuff Jim talks about, but I use
it anyway because they have a complete product system including mixing pumps
hardeners of varying speed, various kinds of structural and non-structural
fillers, etc. that make the whole procedure idiot proof and very convenient)
and put it on with a drywall knife, working it well into the holes (and the
inevitable splinter canyons that result from drilling into rot), then
leveling it. And, oh yes, one more one more thing: Make sure the wood is
ABSOLUTELY DRY before you do any of this, or the penetrating epoxy won't
penetrate, and instead will just seal in the remaining moisture and speed up
the rot. Stick a dehum unit in there, and/or heaters, and get that sucker
really dry. And, of course, make sure the leaks that caused the rot in the
first place are sealed. Have fun--I did this, and the resulting floor, even
where you could stick a screwdriver through originally, now feels like rock.
IT's pretty amazing stuff.
Dan Weeks
76 Argosy 26
Des Moines
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:33:52 -0500
From: Jerry Jarrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Question about penetrating epoxy
> I'm
> going to use penetrating epoxy. However, I have several questions that I
> didn't see covered in the hundreds of posts on the subjects.
T-Bird, Jim Smith helped me a lots when I tackled the floor rot. His advise
is sound and he should know as he has much experience in the boating
industry. Using penetrating epoxy is much easier than removing and replacing
the flooring especially when it iJerry
WBCCI/VAC
57 Overlander
91 Chev G20 Van puller
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:18:50 -0700
From: "T. Byrd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
Hi Jim,
This is all good information. Thank you, I always welcome your 2 cents,
or whatever you can spare. :)
I recently purchased the Overlander with the intent of traveling and
living in it full time. It looked to be in really good condition, and in
fact, for the most part, it is. However there are soft spots in the
floor in the usual locations. It seems that it's in good condition
around the perimeter of the floor, but under the fresh water tank, water
heater, and especially under the shower/comode, it's soft and
delaminating. The interior is in excellent condition, and the previous
owner put down new carpet and sheet vinyl, and we'd rather not delve
into a complete restoration at this time. However, someday we may go a
little further.
I've only taken up the flooring in the bathroom, and we plan on taking
it up under the couch and water heater as well. So far, the wood looks
like it's in decent condition, soft, delaminating, but it hasn't turned
into fluff yet, and it's only really soft in a few select spots (around
the shower drain for example). It is certainly rotting around the edge
of the floor in the shower, so badly in fact, that the aluminum interior
panels have corroded away about 1" or so up from the floor. So at least
I can get the epoxy out to the edge. I don't know if I should be pleased
or not about that one. :)
If the penetrating epoxy can't be used for laminating, how would I
re-laminate the layers? I noticed on the Fiberglass Coatings web site
that they sell a laminating epoxy as well. Can, or should, this be used
prior to the penetrating epoxy? This doesn't sound feasible to me, but
I've never used these types of epoxies, or for these purposes.
I'll take your advice and add the layer of fiberglass cloth over the
area. Do you think this would be better than 1/4" plywood? I don't care
about the quality of the surface so much, as I'm putting the aluminum
shower pan and the black tank back over it when finished. I also agree
with you, and feel that over engineering, and over strengthening the
floor would be better than underkill.
I'm also wondering what kind of coverage I can expect from the
penetrating epoxy. I suppose it depends on the condition of the wood,
and how well it's absorbed. I have maybe 15 to 20 square feet to cover,
and I was planning on purchasing the 1:1 Gallon Kit. In your experience,
is this too much?
Again, thank you for your sage advice!
--
Ted Byrd
1958 Overlander
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:30:52 -0700
From: "T. Byrd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Penetrating Epoxy
Dan Weeks wrote:
> Instead of fiberglass cloth, some of us do a two-stage repair: After
> saturating the wood with penetrating epoxy and letting it cure, we mix up
a
> paste made of epoxy and structural filler (west system epoxies sell this
> stuff.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the additional notes. We live in the Arizona desert, and it's
naturally very warm and dry here. We've been blessed with temperatures
in the 70's this month, and no rain or moisture to speak of. The water
system hasn't been used in a very long while, maybe years, so the wood
is quite dry, and probably willing to drink up as much epoxy as I can
get on it. As I said in my prior message, I'm not too concerned with the
resulting finish, as it will be hidden under the couch, bed, and shower
for the most part. I think I will however do this on the one small
section in front of the shower, as the wood isn't as badly damaged, and
it will be getting a new layer of sheet vinyl upon completion.
--
Ted Byrd
1958 Overlander
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 23:23:07 -0600
From: "Raymond Pillar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tanks for everything
Thanks Krusty err Alex, that's quite a testimonial for JB Weld. I have the
typical cracks around the potty ring and that's all. But you are right in
saying that it's a big job to remove it if it fails again. I am also
uncomfortable with having only a black tank. Very thorough advice.
Decisions - decisions
Ray Pillar
66 Safari
WBCCi 6514
Message Number: 12
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:51:18 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tanks for everything
Ray -
Well, I and Harvey both did this last year, and it is quite a job. It seem
to
separate the men from the boys if you do it your self.
At that time we all wondered quite a bit if the material of the black tank
could be mended at all, as it was polyethylene and reported to resist
epoxies, and such. I despaired and ordered a tank that would fit, but was
far
from original, which meant it would fit sort of. Having the old tank out I
experimented with JB weld which was suggested on this list, and bless me, it
worked amazingly well. I had cracks around the toilet flange (most common
failure) as well as around the dump valve, and even a big cut I made myself
as I was removing it with a sawzall.
I filled all of these with JB weld and waited to see what would happen.
Well, it stuck, and stuck good. I set the tank on saw horses and filled it
with water. No leaks after a week. I plumbed together a riser on the vent
stack (6' tall vertical pipe) plugged the toilet flange, and fill the whole
business with water for a static pressure test. Still no leaks after another
week. The new tank still was several weeks away from delivery, so for
giggles
I reinstalled the repaired old tank. And filled it with water "in situ" --no
leaks. Then I did what I called the Stink Test. I poured 5 gallons of strong
ammonia solution down the toilet, and shut up the trailer, and came back a
week later. No leaks and no smell even on my hands and knees by the toilet
base. This was while the coach was in a heated warehouse last winter, so the
air was still all around it.
Results? I have a brand new black water tank in my basement as it was
special
order and no refund was available! Its NOT for sale as I am digging into my
second 1966 coach, and haven't evaluated the situation yet.
After a year and 30,000 miles and a lot of full timing the tank holds still,
and seems vapor tight. TRY the JB Weld, first! Then test your work, because
new tanks are HARD to get a hold of and expensive and the old tanks seem to
mend easily if structurally intact.
PS Considering was a blasted nuisance it is to pull said tank, I would try
to
mend it "in situ" first, and testing before removing it, and having to work
"in vitro"
"I'm a lazy, lazy, man"
Krusty the Klown-
Hope this helps -
Alex In Indiana
66 Safari & Overlander
8728
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------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 23:24:34 -0600
From: "Raymond Pillar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FW: Tanks for everything
-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Pillar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 11:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FW: [VAC] Tanks for everything
Hi Jim,
This trailer has not been used by me, yet. I bought it at the end of Oct and
started tearing it apart. Everything is out of it now and I just finished
replacing (patching) the floor. I expect that I will be doing about 60%
boon docking. Like many I purchased the trailer and the more I got into it
the more that needed to come out. I am trying to stay the middle road and
not spend too much money, at the same time I don't want any failures while
out trying enjoy a vacation. That is why I am soliciting the expert
opinions.
Thanks
Ray Pillar
66 Safari
WBCCI 6514
-----Original Message-----
From: James Greene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [VAC] Tanks for everything
Ray, tell us some more about how you use your trailer. If you do a lot of
boondocking that's one thing but if you always camp with hook ups that's
something else. What makes the most sense depends on how you camp.
I would not try to repair a 35 year old black water tank. If you have it
out, now is the time to replace it (assuming you don't plan to dispose of
the trailer any time soon). I'd probably get a roll around tank for gray
water if you are going to be camping where you can't drain gray water on the
ground and hook ups are not available.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Pillar" <>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 0:36
Subject: [VAC] Tanks for everything
> Hi
> I would like to get the opinion of all you highly experienced VACer's. I
am
> rebuilding my 66 Safari and have removed the black tank. As you know the
66
> Safari has only a black tank. What do thing I should do.
> 1. repair the tank and reinstall it. 2. buy a new tank. 3. Buy a small
> black tank and a gray tank. or 4. Try to retro fit one small and one
medium
> size roll around tanks in the place where the old large black tank was?
> Thanks for your advice
> Ray Pillar
> WBCCI 6514
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>
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------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 07:39:01 -0500
From: "Whitlow Wyatt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: rust stains on Caravel
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The hardware on the exterior of my Caravel is rusted. I drilled out and =
removed the door holdback latch, the front window rock cover/awning. =
The rust under this hardware and screws have made rust stains down the =
front and side of the trailer. What can I use to remove this rust stain =
without damaging the clear coat?
Whit
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The hardware on the exterior of my =
Caravel is=20
rusted. I drilled out and removed the door holdback latch, the =
front=20
window rock cover/awning. The rust under this hardware and screws =
have=20
made rust stains down the front and side of the trailer. What can =
I use to=20
remove this rust stain without damaging the clear coat?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Whit</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1B206.0241D020--
------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 06:26:52 -0700 (MST)
From: "Karl F. Larsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
Hi Ted, After reading what you say about the plywood under the area, my
suggestion, which is a LOT of work, is to take everything out and replace
that 4 foot by 8 foot plywood with a new one of Naval Plywood. I know it's
expensive but it will not loose strengh even if wet.
My '76 Land Yaht is very nice to work with but the 3/4" ply has some give
and makes plastic tile fracture and look bad....I will think of something
better.
On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, T. Byrd wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Now that the electrical in the Overlander is operating, I turned my
> attention today to the plumbing. The aluminum shower/toilet combination
> was in serious need of sealing. I noticed the floor outside of the
> shower was a little spongy, so I took out the shower today to assess the
> damage. It's not as bad as it could be, but it's not great either. I
> knew that there had been problems in this area due to the copious
> amounts of silicone rubber smeared all over the seams in the shower and
> toilet stand. I disassembled the shower, pulled up the new sheet vinyl,
> and there it was...floor rot, of course. Luckily, it's not spongy enough
> to push my finger, or even a pocket knife, all the way through it, but
> it is soft, and it looks like the plywood has serious delamination. I've
> read the archives, and seeing how others have solved this problem, I'm
> going to use penetrating epoxy. However, I have several questions that I
> didn't see covered in the hundreds of posts on the subjects.
>
> 1. Due to the delamination, I think it's wise to follow the advice about
> drilling holes into the floor. I think the holes would be required to
> ensure that the epoxy penetrates all layers and has a chance to
> thoroughly fill in between the delaminating layers. Does anyone concur
> with this analysis? Or is the stuff wet and powerful enough to soak
> through all of the layers without the holes?
>
> 2. If the holes are required, how many should I drill? I'm thinking that
> a matrix pattern would probably be best to ensure good penetration, but
> how should I space the matrix? A 2" or 3" grid pattern is my gut
> feeling. Is this too large? Too small?
>
> 3. Looking up from below (sans belly pan), the delamination goes all the
> way to the rusting frame. Again, if holes are required, should I drill
> them all the way through the floor, and scab a piece of plywood to the
> floor from below? Or should I (try to) drill through all but the last
> layer of plywood?
>
> 4. Is the epoxy alone enough to restore strength to the floor? Should I
> also scab a piece of 1/4" plywood over the repaired floor afterward, or
> would this be over engineering the solution?
>
> Since I'm in the middle of this project, and there seems to be a large
> number of people who ask about this topic, I'd like to put together a
> How-To guide illustrating the process. I'll take the responses I've read
> in the archives, the responses I receive from this post, combine them
> with pictures of the before, during, and after treatment, and make them
> available to anyone (RJ?) with web space to present it. Unless, of
> course, something like this already exists. :)
>
> --
> Ted Byrd
> 1958 Overlander
>
--
Yours Truly,
- Karl F. Larsen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (505) 524-3303 -
http://www.zianet.com/k5di/
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:35:58 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tanks for everything
Ray-
Jim has a good point about predetermining your needs for tanks. I am single
on the road and sometimes boondock at fairgrounds where no hook ups are
available, and ANY kind of dumping is seriously verboten and easy to detect,
if one thinks about being sneaky (and could never bring myself to do as it
would be a Bad Reflection on ANY Airstreamer). One shower, one dish washing,
and a couple of toilet flushes really fills my black water tank. I elected
not to install a gray water tank last year, and still may not, however. How
do I cope? At a fair ground there are lots of bathrooms and porta-pottys (or
Donnikers as circus folks calls them), use paper plates, or eat out, and
shower when you smell worse than the elephants! Oh, did I mention I'm a
carny?
With some scouting around you many find your boondocking situations not so
unlike mine. Shorter coaches drive well enough on short distances with a
load
of black water, but I'll let you know that I beefed up the tank hangers for
the peace of mind over engineering brings. Remember I'm usually alone on the
road. If you're lucky(?) enough to have a spouse with you, your sewage needs
may preclude my situation.
But other than those very few times of boondocking, I'm in a campground with
full hook ups, and NEVER miss not having a gray tank.
Maybe others can tell of their actual boondocking scenarios. The long
abandoned (and probably just as well) practice of gopher holing is supposed
to have originated on the eastern Canadian caravan during which the WBCCI
was
originated. An actual gopher hole was allegedly employed. Legend has it that
later on the factory available Gopher Hole Cover plate became the palate for
lots of folk art painting and decoration. At least this is what I have
heard.
On a barely related topic--
I have been thinking of hosting a VAC rendezvous in Indianapolis near where
I-65 & I-70 intersect, with high visibility for the public to see and visit
Airstreams, not unlike a vintage car show; in a wagon wheel campsite
formation on a grassy lot. But this means weekend long boondocking at
least,
and a long way from any dumpsite. Would a honey dipper service that came on
the last morning of the event for pump out service be a good Idea? Or
needed?
Your thoughts gang?
Alex (high and dry) in Indiana
66 Safari & Overlander
8728
------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 09:15:12 -0700
From: "phil patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Another idea on black water tanks
Last summer at Sturgis we met a couple who were truckers. They had a new
semi tractor with a nice sleeper on the back of the cab. It had queen bed,
kitchen and a bathroom. The black tank was what he called a cassette unit.
It was an option instead of a fixed tank. The cassette looked like a
suitcase with handle. It slid into a compartment and somehow mated with the
sewer system when in all the way. What was nice was they could pull the
cassette out and carry it with them to a bathroom and dump it down a toilet.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:27:24 -0800
From: "chyde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re:
Greetings all,
I'm in the process of restoring a 57 Sovereign of the Road. I just
purchased a used water heater from someone in the classifieds and it came
with the original steel door painted silver. I know that the water heaters
of the fifties had aluminum doors which I believe frequently fell off or
were damaged over the years. Needless to say I have been unable to find any
good photos of what they should look like. Is there anyone out there that
could send me off list a couple of photos and some basic dimensions of an
original water heater door? I have access to a small metal shop at work and
plan to fabricate a proper replacement. Any help would be much appreciated.
Colin Hyde WBCCI 10247, VAC
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 12:19:27 -0600
From: "Don Hardman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another idea on black water tanks
>What was nice was they could pull the
> cassette out and carry it with them to a bathroom and >dump it down a
toilet.
For some reason I just can't picture this be "nice"
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:05:23 -0800
From: Webmaster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: HWH Cover
Hi Colin,
As this is one of the subjects I get emphatically worked up about - "save
the Hot Water Heater covers" - I'll post some good close-up shots and some
dimensions on the website.
I've seen a couple of shop-made reproductions at rallies, so it is doable-
and they looked rather nice, so I think you'll be successful. Shoot, once
you get the prototype done, I bet you could sell at least 2 dozen or so of
them a year!
Here is a picture of one of the two styles that were used to tide you over
until I can get the camera and the trailer together in the same place.
http://www.VintageAirstream.com/myrtle_tour_details2.html
(click on the image to enlarge the picture)
RJ
VintageAirstream.com
> From: "chyde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:27:24 -0800
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [VAC] Re:
>
> Greetings all,
> I'm in the process of restoring a 57 Sovereign of the Road. I just
> purchased a used water heater from someone in the classifieds and it came
> with the original steel door painted silver. I know that the water heaters
> of the fifties had aluminum doors which I believe frequently fell off or
> were damaged over the years. Needless to say I have been unable to find
any
> good photos of what they should look like. Is there anyone out there that
> could send me off list a couple of photos and some basic dimensions of an
> original water heater door? I have access to a small metal shop at work
and
> plan to fabricate a proper replacement. Any help would be much
appreciated.
>
> Colin Hyde WBCCI 10247, VAC
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #208
************************************
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------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:23:21 -0500
From: Chris Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another idea on black water tanks
I actually think the "cassette" type toilets are pretty neat- the tank is
accessed from the outside- so you don't have to lug it through the trailer.
It's definitely not every ones cup of tea, but it would be nice to be able
to dump in any toilet.
These are available in the US, but they are not shown (I believe)
on the US web site- but they are shown on the European site:
http://www.thetford-europe.com/en/products/cassette_toilets/C3.htm
________
Chris Bryant
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:59:36 -0600
From: "gina terrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about penetrating epoxy
I have the same problem in my bath that I am getting ready to address, a
visual how-to would be very helpful. I will wait if you are going to put one
together.....so thanks in advance
Gina
>From: "T. Byrd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of VACList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [VAC] Question about penetrating epoxy
>Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 00:55:13 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [12.232.123.200] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
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>Precedence: Bulk
>X-Listserver: Macjordomo 1.5 - Macintosh Listserver
>
>Greetings all,
>
>Now that the electrical in the Overlander is operating, I turned my
>attention today to the plumbing. The aluminum shower/toilet combination
>was in serious need of sealing. I noticed the floor outside of the
>shower was a little spongy, so I took out the shower today to assess the
>damage. It's not as bad as it could be, but it's not great either. I
>knew that there had been problems in this area due to the copious
>amounts of silicone rubber smeared all over the seams in the shower and
>toilet stand. I disassembled the shower, pulled up the new sheet vinyl,
>and there it was...floor rot, of course. Luckily, it's not spongy enough
>to push my finger, or even a pocket knife, all the way through it, but
>it is soft, and it looks like the plywood has serious delamination. I've
>read the archives, and seeing how others have solved this problem, I'm
>going to use penetrating epoxy. However, I have several questions that I
>didn't see covered in the hundreds of posts on the subjects.
>
>1. Due to the delamination, I think it's wise to follow the advice about
>drilling holes into the floor. I think the holes would be required to
>ensure that the epoxy penetrates all layers and has a chance to
>thoroughly fill in between the delaminating layers. Does anyone concur
>with this analysis? Or is the stuff wet and powerful enough to soak
>through all of the layers without the holes?
>
>2. If the holes are required, how many should I drill? I'm thinking that
>a matrix pattern would probably be best to ensure good penetration, but
>how should I space the matrix? A 2" or 3" grid pattern is my gut
>feeling. Is this too large? Too small?
>
>3. Looking up from below (sans belly pan), the delamination goes all the
>way to the rusting frame. Again, if holes are required, should I drill
>them all the way through the floor, and scab a piece of plywood to the
>floor from below? Or should I (try to) drill through all but the last
>layer of plywood?
>
>4. Is the epoxy alone enough to restore strength to the floor? Should I
>also scab a piece of 1/4" plywood over the repaired floor afterward, or
>would this be over engineering the solution?
>
>Since I'm in the middle of this project, and there seems to be a large
>number of people who ask about this topic, I'd like to put together a
>How-To guide illustrating the process. I'll take the responses I've read
>in the archives, the responses I receive from this post, combine them
>with pictures of the before, during, and after treatment, and make them
>available to anyone (RJ?) with web space to present it. Unless, of
>course, something like this already exists. :)
>
>--
>Ted Byrd
>1958 Overlander
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
>http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
>When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:07:53 -0500
From: Terry Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Email while traveling
Hi fellow travelers,
Does anyone with a cell phone use CellFlex by Ositech.com for sending and
receiving email? I've been told it works with a laptop using a King of
Clubs PCMCIA modem card which costs a mere $150, but it works only with
specific cell phone models (I don't know which ones).
What prompted this question? We're at a Campground in Clewiston, FL for a
week. The campground office charges $2 for every 15 minute session on their
phone jack and only between 1-5 pm and not on Sunday. The staff were
gracious, polite and exuded southern hospitality while outlining the rules
and taking my money.
It doesn't make any difference that I do "flash sessions" on Earthlink's
800# when no local number is available or that a session takes about three
minutes. The charge is the same, plus they warned me the phone lines are
unreliable and might not be satisfactory.
If paying this kind of line rent for an unreliable phone connection is
what's coming down the pike for us as serious RVers, then simple math tells
me to start looking for a new toy that will do the job, that will be owned
by me, and that I can use whenever I wish.
Maybe I'm a bit grouchy because it's been raining for two days and the
heat/humidity has me leaving windows open, which allows aggressive
mosquitoes to burrow past the fuzzy fur in each window slide.
Windows on the street side can be left open without rain coming in because
of the shorty awnings. The main awning is retracted to avoid losing it to
gusty winds. I'm still smarting from having that occur twice in five years
(including having 10" deep awning tie downs yanked out of the ground).
Oh - another thing, one of two pay phones in this park is out of order and
the other won't access pocketmail without breaking the connection in the
middle of a download (12 attempts). That doesn't please Sandie who does all
her emailing with a purple pocketmail device, nor me who treks it to the pay
phone. We may buy a silver pocketmail device that will work off our digital
cell phone signal.
Anyhow, this is my week for minimal sending and receiving email.
Terry
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it's only
good for wallowing in." <grin>
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:43:17 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: WBCCI membership revisited
I have not renewed our WBCCI membership for this year, and I know that this
is a requirement for membership in the VAC.
Same old barriers, such as not being able to attend the rallies and caravans
due to the restrictions of work, the (to me) uselessness of the Blue Beret
and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
caravans, and not being able to take part in the local unit activities.
Other than becoming a member-at-large of some distant unit, has anyone come
up with anything else? We plan on getting to the VAC rallies that are in the
area (notable the RM rally), but feel that the money spent on WBCCI
membership is just thrown down the drain.
Bob Hightower
'76 31' Sov
------------------------------
Message Number: 14
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:49:04 -0600
From: lefty frizzell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Email while traveling
If you have a laptop, simply go to the closest truck stop. They got
TONs of connections...and they don't care who you call or for how
long...
Just buy some coffee there...and a phone card.
Remember to smile and tip the waitress.
Personally, I have high hopes for nationwide wireless internet...(before
I die).
Lefty Frizzell
http://home.earthlink.net/~leftyfrizzell
****
I can only please one person per day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow is not looking good either.
****
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Terry Tyler
Sent: 11 February 02 12:08
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Email while traveling
Hi fellow travelers,
Does anyone with a cell phone use CellFlex by Ositech.com for sending
and receiving email? I've been told it works with a laptop using a King
of Clubs PCMCIA modem card which costs a mere $150, but it works only
with specific cell phone models (I don't know which ones).
What prompted this question? We're at a Campground in Clewiston, FL for
a week. The campground office charges $2 for every 15 minute session on
their phone jack and only between 1-5 pm and not on Sunday. The staff
were gracious, polite and exuded southern hospitality while outlining
the rules and taking my money.
It doesn't make any difference that I do "flash sessions" on Earthlink's
800# when no local number is available or that a session takes about
three minutes. The charge is the same, plus they warned me the phone
lines are unreliable and might not be satisfactory.
If paying this kind of line rent for an unreliable phone connection is
what's coming down the pike for us as serious RVers, then simple math
tells me to start looking for a new toy that will do the job, that will
be owned by me, and that I can use whenever I wish.
Maybe I'm a bit grouchy because it's been raining for two days and the
heat/humidity has me leaving windows open, which allows aggressive
mosquitoes to burrow past the fuzzy fur in each window slide.
Windows on the street side can be left open without rain coming in
because of the shorty awnings. The main awning is retracted to avoid
losing it to gusty winds. I'm still smarting from having that occur
twice in five years (including having 10" deep awning tie downs yanked
out of the ground).
Oh - another thing, one of two pay phones in this park is out of order
and the other won't access pocketmail without breaking the connection in
the middle of a download (12 attempts). That doesn't please Sandie who
does all her emailing with a purple pocketmail device, nor me who treks
it to the pay phone. We may buy a silver pocketmail device that will
work off our digital cell phone signal.
Anyhow, this is my week for minimal sending and receiving email.
Terry
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it's
only
good for wallowing in." <grin>
To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
------------------------------
Message Number: 15
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:13:47 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
You do not have to be a member of the WBCCI to be a member of the VAC.
Only real drawback is that you might be excluded from attending some
WBCCI only rallies/caravans, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in
your case, Bob. Vintage type rallies are usually open to all.
Here is more info:
http://www.airstream.org/membership.html
I may reword that page to clarify the point - thanks for the heads up.
RJ
VAC Webmaster
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:43 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [VAC] WBCCI membership revisited
>
>
> I have not renewed our WBCCI membership for this year, and I
> know that this
> is a requirement for membership in the VAC.
>
> Same old barriers, such as not being able to attend the
> rallies and caravans
> due to the restrictions of work, the (to me) uselessness of
> the Blue Beret
> and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
> caravans, and not being able to take part in the local unit
> activities.
>
> Other than becoming a member-at-large of some distant unit,
> has anyone come
> up with anything else? We plan on getting to the VAC rallies
> that are in the
> area (notable the RM rally), but feel that the money spent on WBCCI
> membership is just thrown down the drain.
>
> Bob Hightower
> '76 31' Sov
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 16
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:26:44 -0500
From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
At 11:43 AM 2/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>the (to me) uselessness of the Blue Beret
>and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
>caravans
While my local chapter's (Cincinnati, OH) news letter is fine, I agree 100%
on your comment on the Blue Beret.
If they aren't talking about the upcoming International Rally, they are
talking about the one they just had. The VAC "newsletter" is 10000 times
better than the Blue Beret.
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WBCCI: 5074
1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio
------------------------------
Message Number: 17
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:52:13 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
If it was not for the WBCCI the VAC would not exist. The VAC and the WBCCI
cater to two different groups which do happen to overlap quite a bit. This
is why you can be a member of the VAC (a friend subscription) without being
a member of the WBCCI. However, I believe that there are some limitations
with a friend subscription that you would not encounter with full
membership. I happen to be a member of both, even though it is somewhat
difficult to be fully involved with the local WBCCI unit, my wife and I find
it very rewarding to interact with people 30 and 40 years older than
ourselves.
Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 18
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:06:09 -0500
From: Cynthia Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
I had always thought that one had to be a member of WBCCI to access the VAC archives
and other technical information ... if that's not the case, then we would love to save
the WBCCI membership fee and only belong to VAC as a "friend". Nothing wrong with
Cynthia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 1:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList
> Subject: [VAC] Re: WBCCI membership revisited
>
>
> You do not have to be a member of the WBCCI to be a member of
> the VAC.
> Only real drawback is that you might be excluded from attending some
> WBCCI only rallies/caravans, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in
> your case, Bob. Vintage type rallies are usually open to all.
>
> Here is more info:
>
> http://www.airstream.org/membership.html
>
> I may reword that page to clarify the point - thanks for the heads up.
>
> RJ
> VAC Webmaster
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:43 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [VAC] WBCCI membership revisited
> >
> >
> > I have not renewed our WBCCI membership for this year, and I
> > know that this
> > is a requirement for membership in the VAC.
> >
> > Same old barriers, such as not being able to attend the
> > rallies and caravans
> > due to the restrictions of work, the (to me) uselessness of
> > the Blue Beret
> > and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
> > caravans, and not being able to take part in the local unit
> > activities.
> >
> > Other than becoming a member-at-large of some distant unit,
> > has anyone come
> > up with anything else? We plan on getting to the VAC rallies
> > that are in the
> > area (notable the RM rally), but feel that the money spent on WBCCI
> > membership is just thrown down the drain.
> >
> > Bob Hightower
> > '76 31' Sov
> >
>
>
>
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>
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------------------------------
Message Number: 19
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:06:00 -0500
From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
Dave, as far as I can tell with the monthly Blue Beret all they do is change
the cover. The content never varies. Maybe to save money we could keep the
insides and they could just send a fresh cover every month.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 14:26
Subject: [VAC] Re: WBCCI membership revisited
> At 11:43 AM 2/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >the (to me) uselessness of the Blue Beret
> >and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
> >caravans
>
> While my local chapter's (Cincinnati, OH) news letter is fine, I agree
100%
> on your comment on the Blue Beret.
>
> If they aren't talking about the upcoming International Rally, they are
> talking about the one they just had. The VAC "newsletter" is 10000 times
> better than the Blue Beret.
>
> Dave
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> WBCCI: 5074
>
> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> Cincinnati, Ohio
>
>
>
>
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>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 20
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:35:17 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
I had always thought that belonging to the WBCCI and the Vintage club, was,
in part, a means to share information.
Life, in many ways, is a "give and take".
Many of the old timers were in the group of "takers" and over a period of
time, became rather knowledgeable about their Airstream. Certainly, someone,
some where took the time to help them, with their Airstream.
Now, some of us, are much older, and at times, a little cranky, myself
included, and a few of them are talking about abandoning the very
organizations, that helped us, and them, many times over many years.
What are the newbies going to think, when they are told, "I got what I
wanted, you go fend for yourself?
I think, that when others were there for many of us, that it would indeed be
very sad, if we turned our backs on the newcomers.
Give and take "IS" a great part of life. If we gave back, just a part of what
we received,
then we have made our fair contribution, to the newcomers.
They may not always be grateful, as sometimes we weren't, but hopefully,
because of us that have been around a "long" time, they may follow in our
footsteps, making the Airstream "WAY OF LIFE", through our examples of
fellowship, bigger and better.
Lets not give up on our "successors", but instead show them, as others have
shown us, of what "real fellowship", is all about.
Lets not be quitters, guys and gals alike, but work together, for all of our
benefits. If we don't like something, then lets work together, to fix it.
Had we all been united, as we should have been, then maybe, just maybe, 9-11
would not have happened.
Together, Airstreamers accomplish the difficult today, because yesterday,
they accomplished "the impossible".
For what it's worth, our younger generation "needs us" and probably more than
they think.
And, I think, we really need them, too!!!
Andy
------------------------------
Message Number: 21
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:21:31 -0700 (MST)
From: "Karl F. Larsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
Hi Bob, I discovered that this list did not require membership in WBCCI so
I didn't bother. Later I learned that you need to be a member to use the
manuals on-line and some other services. But like you, my use of my
trailer is far more New Mexico type than rallies and caravans, in fact I
plan to make the long trip to Estes Park near Denver this summer. I hope
you plan to attend again.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Bob Hightower wrote:
> I have not renewed our WBCCI membership for this year, and I know that this
> is a requirement for membership in the VAC.
>
> Same old barriers, such as not being able to attend the rallies and caravans
> due to the restrictions of work, the (to me) uselessness of the Blue Beret
> and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
> caravans, and not being able to take part in the local unit activities.
>
> Other than becoming a member-at-large of some distant unit, has anyone come
> up with anything else? We plan on getting to the VAC rallies that are in the
> area (notable the RM rally), but feel that the money spent on WBCCI
> membership is just thrown down the drain.
>
> Bob Hightower
> '76 31' Sov
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
>
--
Yours Truly,
- Karl F. Larsen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (505) 524-3303 -
http://www.zianet.com/k5di/
------------------------------
Message Number: 22
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:39:01 -0500
From: Cynthia Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
>
> Hi Bob, I discovered that this list did not require
> membership in WBCCI so
> I didn't bother. Later I learned that you need to be a member
> to use the
> manuals on-line and some other services.
That had also been my impression. So, is that the case? Either way, it would be nice
if the web site were more clear on exactly what you do and do not get with a "Friend"
membership in VAC as opposed to a full WBCCI/VAC membership. Please do not interp
Thanks,
Cynthia
------------------------------
Message Number: 23
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:48:05 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
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I belong to both the VAC andWBCCI I have attended rallys in Different aeras
and except for the Vac Members I feel like I am Being tolerated by the WBCCI
members I realy have nothing in common with the owners of a shiny new 34 ft.
trailer in . I went vintage for 2 reasons after I retired I found that I
could not possably afford the mega bucks to by bright and shiny new.
Secondaly I thourly enjoy the work of upgrading this old trailer. It is good
thearpy for this old man.There is an inner joy in turning a sows ear into a
silk purse I love meeting wityh the owners of vintage trailers and discussing
there provlems with them some times I can eaven offer helpful suggestions. I
also like to be around younger people,.Just a 20 yearold trapped in a 75
year old body.
Jim smith
1965 Tradewind(The Silver Abaltross)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I belong to both the VAC andWBCCI I have attended rallys in
Different aeras and except for the Vac Members I feel like I am Being tolerated by the
WBCCJim smith<BR>
1965 Tradewind(The Silver Abaltross)<BR>
</P></FONT></HTML>
--part1_8e.22d32312.2999a425_boundary--
------------------------------
Message Number: 24
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:04:41 -0500
From: Chris Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
At 05:48 PM 2/11/02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I belong to both the VAC andWBCCI I have attended rallys in Different
>aeras and except for the Vac Members I feel like I am Being tolerated by
>the WBCCI members I realy have nothing in common with the owners of a
>shiny new 34 ft. trailer .
***Warning- pure editorial content ahead***
That's OK, Jim- I bet Wally wouldn't have much in common either <VBG>
(* note I don't completely believe that- but in general I probably do)
________
Chris Bryant
------------------------------
Message Number: 25
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:14:47 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that WBCCI was a
prerequisite for VAC.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: WBCCI membership revisited
> You do not have to be a member of the WBCCI to be a member of the VAC.
> Only real drawback is that you might be excluded from attending some
> WBCCI only rallies/caravans, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in
> your case, Bob. Vintage type rallies are usually open to all.
>
> Here is more info:
>
> http://www.airstream.org/membership.html
>
> I may reword that page to clarify the point - thanks for the heads up.
>
> RJ
> VAC Webmaster
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:43 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: [VAC] WBCCI membership revisited
> >
> >
> > I have not renewed our WBCCI membership for this year, and I
> > know that this
> > is a requirement for membership in the VAC.
> >
> > Same old barriers, such as not being able to attend the
> > rallies and caravans
> > due to the restrictions of work, the (to me) uselessness of
> > the Blue Beret
> > and the local newsletter, which both are pointed toward rallies and
> > caravans, and not being able to take part in the local unit
> > activities.
> >
> > Other than becoming a member-at-large of some distant unit,
> > has anyone come
> > up with anything else? We plan on getting to the VAC rallies
> > that are in the
> > area (notable the RM rally), but feel that the money spent on WBCCI
> > membership is just thrown down the drain.
> >
> > Bob Hightower
> > '76 31' Sov
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 26
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:21:57 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Wow! Guess I stirred the pot a bit.=20
I have nothing against the WBCCI, it's just that we can't attend many =
rallies that start on Tuesday or Wednesday and run through the weekend, =
particularly when there is travel involved. I'd rather spend my =
windshield time going to a VAC rally.
I'm sure that every rally is unique and informative, as well as a chance =
to meet new folks, renew old acquaintances and learn quite a bit. But, =
since we have an 'oldie', there is more attraction in seeing other old =
ones (rigs, that is :^)), and seeing what has been done to them and how =
it was done.
I'll certainly keep up the VAC membership, and am still mulling over the =
WBCCI membership. We'd like to be able to get to the rallies, but that's =
a bit off in the future.
Bob Hightower.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wow! Guess I stirred the pot a bit. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have nothing against the WBCCI, it's =
just that we=20
can't attend many rallies that start on Tuesday or Wednesday and run =
through the=20
weekend, particularly when there is travel involved. I'd rather spend my =
windshield time going to a VAC rally.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm sure that every rally is unique and =
informative, as well as a chance to meet new folks, renew old =
acquaintances and=20
learn quite a bit. But, since we have an 'oldie', there is more =
attraction in=20
seeing other old ones (rigs, that is :^)), and seeing what has been done =
to them=20
and how it was done.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll certainly keep up the VAC =
membership, and am=20
still mulling over the WBCCI membership. We'd like to be able to get to =
the=20
rallies, but that's a bit off in the future.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bob =
Hightower.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Message Number: 27
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:04:51 -0700
From: "T. Byrd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: WBCCI membership revisited
Greetings all,
I'd like to add my two cents to this, being a newbie, and a relative
youngin'...
First of all, I am not a member of the WBCCI, nor the Vintage club. I
have contacted my local region's membership director, and requested an
enrollment form. However, I'm struggling with this. I would love to
participate in the International Rally, at least once, just to see all
that aluminum in one place, and to attend the swap meets. I'm really not
interested in the caravans, primarily because of the cost. I don't have
the money to spend for these things, and I'm perfectly happy just
tooling around on my own if it's going to cost a lot of money just to be
a part of a caravan. The ONLY reason I've considered joining the WBCCI
is so that I can join the VAC, which equates to a $60/year membership
fee for the VAC, and I would just as soon see this fee going entirely to
the VAC.
As I understand it, Wally Byam started the WBCCI in an effort to help
people get their trailers out of their yards and onto the roads, doing
what they were designed for...travel. From what I've seen of the old
caravan notices, which are admittedly few, these caravans were free,
except for the out of pocket costs incurred by the owners for fuel and
supplies. That to me is a fair arrangement. But, again, I'm not as
knowledgeable about these things as I'm sure some of you are. Please
correct me on this point if I'm mistaken.
In this new age of electronic communication, the need for private club
newsletters is becoming more and more obsolete. We no longer need a club
to rally the owners of travel trailers, or any other product, when so
much information, and so many individuals, are present here on the
Internet. This very list has probably provided more information since
it's inception than all of the newsletters combined. As I learn from all
of you I feel a deep sense of gratitude, and it is my intent to spread
my new found knowledge to anyone else in need of help. Give and take is
a part of life, however, our brains and our hearts are much like a fresh
water tank, they must be filled before they can provide the cool
refreshment of their contents.
There is no reason, in this day and age, that we, as a group of
enthusiastic individuals, can not perform the function of a large
organization. Personally, I think for some of us at least, we can do
just as well, if not better, than the WBCCI to promote the Airstream way
of life. To organize informal vintage caravans and rallies, share
information, and extend fellowship to one another is quite possible
without paying an exclusivity "tax". The one thing I really miss with
this electronic communication, is the pleasure of meeting more of you in
person. The face to face meeting, hearing stories of the "old days",
tips from seasoned veterans of the road, meeting with the older AND
younger members of this group would be an honor. Whether WBCCI members,
or not.
As for the events of 9/11, well, if the government had spent more money
on intelligence and security, rather than corporate welfare, bloated
spending programs, and of course the inevitable kick-backs, we might
have avoided the tragedy. But that has NOTHING to do with vintage
Airstreams, so I'll let that issue rest.
--
Ted Byrd
1958 Overlander
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #209
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