> Paul L. Allen
> Robert Kropiewnicki writes:
> > Do you work for Inter7?  Can you speak definitively to the fact that
> > they've shelved vpopmail for good on their end?  No, you can't.
> And can you speak definitively to say that they haven't?
> Despite Ken's
> sudden re-appearance here, can you positively, definitely state that
> Ken is going to be as active now and in the future as he was
> six months
> ago and that there will be no more sudden disappearances for months on
> end?

I've spoken definitively to no such thing.  What Ken Jones will do now
that he has been granted admin access (bravo Tom!) is not at the core of
my argument.  My argument is that he has done enough in the past for
vpopmail development to warrant his inclusion as an admin.

> > I've seen enough projects in enough companies get put on hold for
> > periods of time because there was something else that required more
> > attention.  Heck, I've had projects I've worked on get put on hold
> > because management decided something else was a more pressing matter
> > only to return to the project when the pressing matter had been
> > completed.
> And in those cases I would expect the companies involved to be honest
> with external clients who are waiting for the completion of those
> projects, at least if the client asked when it was going to be ready.
> Clients are funny that way - if you tell them there has been a delay
> they may accept that delay but if you ignore them they go
> somewhere else.
> By not even saying that he was busy or delegating it to somebody else
> Ken put himself in the situation where people walked away.

Many of the projects I spoke about in terms of personal experience had
more to do with internal infrastructure projects.  Actually, it was
projects for external paying clients that would often be the reason they
were put on hold.  With any business, the needs of the paying clients
come first.

> > Failure of Inter7's management to recognize the need for
> either visibly
> > active development or at the very least, acknowledge the
> fact that Ken's
> > hands were currently tied due to being assigned other
> projects should not
> > be held against Ken.
> No, it should be held against Inter 7.  Which may or may not be Ken
> himself.  Whether it was Ken's decision or that of a pointy-haired
> boss makes no difference.  Somebody at Inter 7 thought it acceptable
> for Ken to ignore this list and vpopmail development for 6 months.
> I do not think that acceptable.

I do not find it acceptable either.  I had asked on this list when the
next official Inter7-stamped stable release of vpopmail was coming on at
least two occasions given that one of the other Inter7 apps I was using
(I believe it was vqadmin) required the development release of vpopmail
as a requirement for its stable release.  I found that as unacceptable
then as I do now.

> > Disagree.  If Linus Torvalds had to step away from working
> on the Linux
> > kernel for an extended period of time, would he have to
> justify why he
> > still deserved to be a lead on the project?
> If he stopped working on the kernel for 6 months without
> telling anyone,
> without responding to bug reports or patches and effectively stalling
> development until somebody forked development then he damned
> well would
> have to justify being a lead again.  But we both know that Linus would
> not do that.  If circumstances forced his absence for a
> prolonged period
> he would delegate control temporarily.
> Ken did not even delegate control temporarily.  It was left to Tom to
> pick up the ball after realizing that Ken had apparently given up on
> things.  It appears that the only reason Ken has expressed
> any interest
> since is because Tom formally took control and so Inter 7
> would lose the
> right advertise themselves as the developers of vpopmail.
> I do not see any behaviour by Ken or Inter 7 that justifies Ken having
> administrative control but I do see a lot of behaviour by Ken that
> justifies him NOT having administrative control.

For the most part I can agree with this argument.  If Ken were going to
have complete and total administrative control again to the exclusion of
Tom, I would completely agree with this argument.  However, as it stands
right now, Ken and Tom are both listed as administrators, so here's a
call to let this thread die.

> --
> Paul Allen
> Softflare Support

The civility of your post is well appreciated.  Here's hoping we both
get what we want, the continued development and improvement of vpopmail.


Robert Kropiewnicki

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