Le dimanche 18 mars 2018 12:24:38 UTC+1, Justin M. Keyes a écrit : > 2018-03-11 16:04 GMT+01:00 Bram Moolenaar <b...@moolenaar.net>: > > > > Justin M. Keyes wrote: > > > >> 2018-03-08 18:05 GMT+01:00 Bram Moolenaar <b...@moolenaar.net>: > >> > > >> > I'm thinking of creating the 8.1 release. The main new feature is the > >> > terminal window, with the debugger plugin. And lots of smaller > >> > additions and plenty of bug fixes. > >> > > >> > Is there is something important that should still be included? > >> > Or something in the terminal window that should be changed before > >> > putting it in an official release? > >> > >> This would be a good time to mention Neovim in `:help credits`, Bram. > >> > >> Vim now approximates at least two major Neovim features, one of which > >> motivated an awkward retraction[2] to `:help design-not`. In other > >> words, Neovim drove Vim to change its reconsider its own > >> hitherto-inviolable design constraints. > >> > >> The only major features added to Vim in the last 4 years were > >> reactions to Neovim. > >> > >> Neovim has also been the direct and indirect source of many (some > >> uncredited/copy-pasted) patches, fixes, and bug reports. > >> > >> How about recognizing this in the credits? > > > > I have to admit I haven't been updating the list of credits. It's > > getting too long, but I don't feel it is right to remove people. > > And it's hard to decide who to add or not add. The list of patches > > gives a better indication about who contributed. > > Yes but the VCS (git) logs are difficult to analyze, and they have > mistakes. Perhaps you should update your script to use the `--author` > option of `git commit`. > > > Why mention Neovim? I don't think I have included any code. The way > > Of course Neovim code has been included. It's odd that you would > pretend otherwise. Neovim contributors have sent patches that were > ported from Neovim. Some vim_dev contributors have taken patches from > Neovim and ported them to Vim without attribution. Formatting changes > aren't a meaningful distinction. > > > That Vim and Neovim have some functionality added in recent years that > > is similar has more to do with what users ask for than anything else. > > Since you've "participated in a product launch", you know that proving > a use-case despite loud opposition takes a lot of effort, specially > because if it's done poorly then it is counterproductive. > > Neovim proved that job-control and :terminal are useful and that Vim > users and plugin authors can and will use it productively. That's > valuable and non-trivial, and it worked only because Neovim's > implementation of those features was pretty good. > > Moreover in 2014 you said[1] your plans for Vim were "Nothing > spectacular. Mainly small improvements." No mention of job-control nor > :terminal, both of which qualify as "spectacular" compared to any > other Vim feature. And the T-leaves[2] around that time didn't have > any changes of priority that would indicate the next 3 years of > vigorous effort in the service of spectacular features. > > It seems like something changed since 2014. Something inspired a > roadmap beyond "Nothing spectacular. Mainly small improvements." What > do you attribute that change to? > > If Neovim doesn't meet whatever vague standard is in effect for `:help > credits`, just a non-equivocating acknowledgement would be worth > hearing from you, here, on vim_dev. > > > And yes, when users see something in Neovim, questions come up wether to > > add this to Vim in some way. But does that deserve credit? > > > > Why I finally added the terminal window, even though I have been against > > that for a long time, has certainly nothing to do with Neovim. I > > mentioned the reasons quite a while ago (July 2nd 2017). Perhaps also a > > bit selfish, since I wanted to be able to debug Vim over an ssh > > connection and could not find any other way. > > That's a weak justification. Was this change driven by user demand or not? > > What channels do you monitor to get a sense of user-demand? Given > that you didn't use GitHub until recently, and before implementing > 'packpath' did not know that pathogen was the single most-important > development in the last 10 years driving Vim adoption, I would guess > you don't read many blog posts from users, nor reddit, nor twitter. > And I didn't see many (if any) users on vim_dev, nor vim_use, nor > vim.org, asking for :terminal. So where does your sense of > user-demand come from? > > Thanks. > > [1] > https://www.binpress.com/blog/2014/11/19/vim-creator-bram-moolenaar-interview/ > [2] > https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/5e9b2fa9bb0e6061cf18457c173cd141a5dc9c92/runtime/doc/todo.txt > > --- > Justin M. Keyes
Hi all, Activate a war based on a frustration that this feature or other one is integrated or not in vim's release, is that make sense ? It's just the vision of a french little user, not expert in software dev but in humanity, I don't think Bram has had words So Hard to the creator of Vi. You should stop this, in spite of the frustrations that I have sometimes too, and recognizing to him to have enhanced and produced code over during a quarter of century that allows you to start neovim, bring you to this next generation neovim, the new world as says by the politics French. Outside my thought on the former(old) and the New World, we are all all right to say that we love [ vim | neovim] main phylosophical concept. According to that common point, It would make sense and Surprise about some with it to get users's opinion by survey web tool. Thank you Bram and Community. Courage for the Uganda Children Little French User Niva -- -- You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "vim_dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to vim_dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
