I agree with everything you said. I never meant to imply that any one
was doing as much as Apple. I just wanted to point out that their are
other companies who do have a commitment to accessibility.

Furthermore, I think part of Apple's justification was related to
governmental regulations (not unlike IBM's and Google's) and the fact
that there was a time when there was no screen reader for any Apple
products. MS may not have had a screen reader themselves, but they could
point to 3rd party screen readers at a time when Apple didn't even have
that option.

Again, I don't mean to take anything away from Apple here. I'm not sure
how much governmental regulations played into their going after
accessibility, but I definitely feel like they're doing more than what
would minimally be required for them to bid on a government contract.

On 17/09/12 15:46, David Chittenden wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I must differ with you about Apple's accessibility compared with other 
> mainstream companies.
> 
> Apple is unique in that they are making all of their physical products as 
> accessible as possible (we cannot say all of their products since iCloud 
> accessibility online is only partial).
> 
> IBM would come closest to Apple's commitment with OS2, but Lotus products 
> only became accessible after considerable social and legal pressure against 
> IBM. That said, IBM developed Home Page Reader as an accessible web browser 
> when it was needed.
> 
> Google is trying to catch up to Apple's accessibility. I hope Google develops 
> accessibility as a core corporate value, but they do not yet appear to be 
> making all of their product / product lines accessible.
> 
> Many other companies have dabbled in accessibility. Several of them give up 
> after losing various amounts of moneys in accessibility-related projects. One 
> example is Texas Instruments (if memory serves) who developed an interesting 
> possibility for refreshable braille using light reactive polymers. A 
> blindness organisation so completely trashed and ridiculed them that they 
> stated they would never work on development around access again (as told to 
> me by one of their VPs 12 years ago).
> 
> Interestingly, Apple's touch-based screen-reader was criticised when it first 
> came out by prominent blindness people. Fortunately, Apple ignored such 
> comments the way they tend to ignore all of their critics.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: [email protected]
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18/09/2012, at 2:48, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Just two other points here. Accessibility like any other project may
>> have it's priority rise and fall as other projects priorities change or
>> as Apple perceives it's lead in the accessibility area growing or
>> shrinking. this is no different than any other project.
>>
>> I agree that Apple has done a lot as a main stream company with respect
>> to accessibility, but I'm not positive that their investment is light
>> years ahead of other main stream companies. I know for example, Google
>> has quite a bit invested in accessibility right now between ChromeVox,
>> Android and their on line services, such as Google Docs. IBM also came
>> out with their own screen reader for OS/2, which I know is ancient
>> history, but their investment to accessibility has continued with
>> contributions to FireFox and the accessibility of products such as Lotus
>> Notes, Sametime and Symphony.
>>
>> I also don't see Apple changing on a dime just because Steve Jobs is no
>> longer with them. Who knows how this will effect Apple in the long run,
>> but I'm sure he delegated some things before his death, and I'm sure
>> there are others at Apple who shared and understood his vision.
>>
>> On 17/09/12 09:36, Marc Rocheleau wrote:
>>> Hey Scott,
>>>
>>> I totally understand what you mean. Like I said, I'm trying not to
>>> jump the gun or anything -- it's more a paranoia of mine than a valid
>>> fear. I fully acknowledge that Apple has too much money to lose if
>>> they drop accessibility from their products, especially with the
>>> communities that have been created online (such as this one) because
>>> of it.
>>>
>>> I think it's more a case of it feeling too good to be true still. No
>>> other mainstream companies provide this level of support for the
>>> blind/visually-impaired, imo, and sometimes it feels like the other
>>> shoe should be dropping at any second. I know Apple does it for money
>>> but I don't really care as long as I am getting value for my money.
>>>
>>> There's a reason I'm switching to an iMac in the coming months, after all. 
>>> :)
>>>
>>> -Marc
>>>
>>> On 9/17/12, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Marc,
>>>>
>>>> Before folks go running off on a tangent about accessibility, Steve Jobs,
>>>> and so forth I think it is important to point out:
>>>> 1. Steve Jobs, although a great man, was not the exclusive determining
>>>> factor for Voiceover in Apple's products.
>>>> 2. Just because Steve has passed on does not mean Apple will abandon
>>>> accessibility.
>>>> 3. There has been articles posted by the U.S. Department of Treasury (a 
>>>> year
>>>> or two ago) that indicates there are over 100,000 blind/visually impaired
>>>> users of iPhones. Note iPhones and the article did not mention iPads etc.
>>>> 4. Apple has to balance accessibility against all the other projects that
>>>> are ongoing. There are resources dedicated to many projects and some
>>>> projects get more resources than others. Fact is accessibility may not get
>>>> the same level of resources as other projects; however, you have to
>>>> understand it is always a challenge trying to be sure resources are managed
>>>> in such a way to ensure overall mission/goals/objectives are addressed
>>>> without impacting the largest user community. I may not be explaining that
>>>> as well as I could, but the idea is you put the resources on whatever will
>>>> maximize profits and make no mistake that Apple is about making money. Oh
>>>> and I'm all for Apple making money and buckets of it. MOre money means more
>>>> resources and more resources means more likelihood accessibility gets
>>>> attention.
>>>> 5. Apple is the only "mainstream" company to my knowledge that has invested
>>>> so heavily into accessibility.
>>>> 6. A lot of developers have committed to making their apps accessible, so
>>>> accessibility has really gained such a considerable amount of attention 
>>>> that
>>>> there is support beyond even this community. You can bet if Apple ever
>>>> decided to drop accessibility, we would have a good deal of support.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not lecturing you here Marc, but merely pointing out (because this 
>>>> comes
>>>> up on the list from time to time) that APple has committed to accessibility
>>>> and like any other aspect of software things get broken and hopefully 
>>>> fixed.
>>>> I think a lot of the issues we all have experienced from time to time and
>>>> still do in some cases is not being ignored. When you consider the size and
>>>> scope of a project such as iOS itself, you can imagine the number of people
>>>> working on such a project. Add to that the layers of management and
>>>> development protocols etc… I'm not surprised that it takes a while to
>>>> address problems.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Marc Rocheleau <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, I sincerely hope that app developers who use VoiceOver have been
>>>>> reporting these problems to Apple's accessibility team. This is
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" 
>>>> Google
>>>> Group.
>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> [email protected].
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> chaltain at Gmail
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google 
>> Group.
>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/.
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> [email protected].
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google 
Group.
To search the VIPhone public archive, visit 
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.


Reply via email to