Sure, CF demonstrated that blind people could spatially conceive four buttons on a touch-screen without any tactile feedback. The professionals were too busy proving why this was impossible. Apple merely completely rewrote the entire paradigm by advancing it a few generations in one swoop and turning the theories and assumptions on their heads.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 18/09/2012, at 9:23, Kawal Gucukoglu <[email protected]> wrote: > But you will agree or some of you will, Code Factory did start the > possibility of touch screen and may be Apple did learn something from them > don't some of you think? > On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:09, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yes and that is why APple is so innovative. I have always felt that there >> would be a way for blind people to use a touch interface and Apple made it >> happen in a much more meaningful way than Code Factory did with their >> approach. I'm not saying CF was wrong in their approach necessarily, but it >> certainly did not provide the type of meaningful interface that would bring >> the level of productivity that iOS has. >> Of course this is just my opinion. :) >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 5:01 PM, David Chittenden <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The fact is, before apple came out with their revolutionary touch-based >>> screen reader, it was not believed blind people could work with touch >>> screens in such a way. The closest thing was Mobile Speak who turned the >>> touch-screen in to 4 large buttons, and created an invisible talking >>> keyboard that covered the entire display. The professional research >>> questions were all focused around how to ad tactile feedback in a way that >>> would be meaningful to blind people. The basic premise has been that blind >>> people could not effectively adapt to an ever-changing visual interface. As >>> I read through the professional research and literature, this theme remains >>> constant. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: [email protected] >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 18/09/2012, at 3:28, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> You know I've not been much a fan of Chrome or the ChromVox, but you know >>>> I understand it is still early in its development. WHat I am pleased by is >>>> the fact that GOogle also is investing in accessibility and I hope other >>>> companies will see the benefits and jump on the wagon as well. Do I want >>>> to see vendors such as FS or GW Micro go out of business? No, but at the >>>> same time if that were to happen it means that finally accessibility has >>>> reached a "mainstream" status and that can be a good (as well as a bad ) >>>> thing. All this means is if you looked back just five or so years ago, who >>>> ever thought we would have access to these touch-screen devices to the >>>> level we do today. Actually when you consider the entire 20 plus years of >>>> screen reading technology and look just in the last five or six years at >>>> what has been accomplished, well it is pretty amazing. >>>> >>>> On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just two other points here. Accessibility like any other project may >>>>> have it's priority rise and fall as other projects priorities change or >>>>> as Apple perceives it's lead in the accessibility area growing or >>>>> shrinking. this is no different than any other project. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that Apple has done a lot as a main stream company with respect >>>>> to accessibility, but I'm not positive that their investment is light >>>>> years ahead of other main stream companies. I know for example, Google >>>>> has quite a bit invested in accessibility right now between ChromeVox, >>>>> Android and their on line services, such as Google Docs. IBM also came >>>>> out with their own screen reader for OS/2, which I know is ancient >>>>> history, but their investment to accessibility has continued with >>>>> contributions to FireFox and the accessibility of products such as Lotus >>>>> Notes, Sametime and Symphony. >>>>> >>>>> I also don't see Apple changing on a dime just because Steve Jobs is no >>>>> longer with them. Who knows how this will effect Apple in the long run, >>>>> but I'm sure he delegated some things before his death, and I'm sure >>>>> there are others at Apple who shared and understood his vision. >>>>> >>>>> On 17/09/12 09:36, Marc Rocheleau wrote: >>>>>> Hey Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> I totally understand what you mean. Like I said, I'm trying not to >>>>>> jump the gun or anything -- it's more a paranoia of mine than a valid >>>>>> fear. I fully acknowledge that Apple has too much money to lose if >>>>>> they drop accessibility from their products, especially with the >>>>>> communities that have been created online (such as this one) because >>>>>> of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it's more a case of it feeling too good to be true still. No >>>>>> other mainstream companies provide this level of support for the >>>>>> blind/visually-impaired, imo, and sometimes it feels like the other >>>>>> shoe should be dropping at any second. I know Apple does it for money >>>>>> but I don't really care as long as I am getting value for my money. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's a reason I'm switching to an iMac in the coming months, after >>>>>> all. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -Marc >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/17/12, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Marc, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Before folks go running off on a tangent about accessibility, Steve >>>>>>> Jobs, >>>>>>> and so forth I think it is important to point out: >>>>>>> 1. Steve Jobs, although a great man, was not the exclusive determining >>>>>>> factor for Voiceover in Apple's products. >>>>>>> 2. Just because Steve has passed on does not mean Apple will abandon >>>>>>> accessibility. >>>>>>> 3. There has been articles posted by the U.S. Department of Treasury (a >>>>>>> year >>>>>>> or two ago) that indicates there are over 100,000 blind/visually >>>>>>> impaired >>>>>>> users of iPhones. Note iPhones and the article did not mention iPads >>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>> 4. Apple has to balance accessibility against all the other projects >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> are ongoing. There are resources dedicated to many projects and some >>>>>>> projects get more resources than others. Fact is accessibility may not >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> the same level of resources as other projects; however, you have to >>>>>>> understand it is always a challenge trying to be sure resources are >>>>>>> managed >>>>>>> in such a way to ensure overall mission/goals/objectives are addressed >>>>>>> without impacting the largest user community. I may not be explaining >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> as well as I could, but the idea is you put the resources on whatever >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> maximize profits and make no mistake that Apple is about making money. >>>>>>> Oh >>>>>>> and I'm all for Apple making money and buckets of it. MOre money means >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> resources and more resources means more likelihood accessibility gets >>>>>>> attention. >>>>>>> 5. Apple is the only "mainstream" company to my knowledge that has >>>>>>> invested >>>>>>> so heavily into accessibility. >>>>>>> 6. A lot of developers have committed to making their apps accessible, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> accessibility has really gained such a considerable amount of attention >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> there is support beyond even this community. You can bet if Apple ever >>>>>>> decided to drop accessibility, we would have a good deal of support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not lecturing you here Marc, but merely pointing out (because this >>>>>>> comes >>>>>>> up on the list from time to time) that APple has committed to >>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>> and like any other aspect of software things get broken and hopefully >>>>>>> fixed. >>>>>>> I think a lot of the issues we all have experienced from time to time >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> still do in some cases is not being ignored. When you consider the size >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> scope of a project such as iOS itself, you can imagine the number of >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> working on such a project. Add to that the layers of management and >>>>>>> development protocols etc… I'm not surprised that it takes a while to >>>>>>> address problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Marc Rocheleau <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wow, I sincerely hope that app developers who use VoiceOver have been >>>>>>>> reporting these problems to Apple's accessibility team. This is >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>>> Google >>>>>>> Group. >>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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