The fact is, blindness, including legal blindness, is between .5% and .6% of the world population. We are a very tiny minority of any population. Many companies have discontinued products which were very popular amongst the blind because the sighted were not interested. We do not matter when considered as market potential save for small start-ups and specialty companies.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 18/09/2012, at 12:11, Joanne Chua <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > It might seems like there're only 100,000 vip iphone users in the > states, however, lets not forget those who's not in the states, and > who is using the iphone as much as the vip users in the states. > > More so, perhaps 50% of these user, (those who users an iphone) would > have second Apple product, either in the form of IPots IPads, or Macs. > > I don't think we can consider ourselves as minority population when > come to using Apple products. Granted, Apple won't close down their > business just because we don't use the products. at the same time, i > don't think we realize how much of an impact we may have with > accessibility and Apple, or with Androy even. > > Joanne > > On 18/09/2012, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >> I don't feel that is relevant and no I do not take anything from CF as far >> as what they accomplished. I do not believe though that Apple took anything >> from what CF learned. >> >> On Sep 17, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> But you will agree or some of you will, Code Factory did start the >>> possibility of touch screen and may be Apple did learn something from them >>> don't some of you think? >>> On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:09, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes and that is why APple is so innovative. I have always felt that there >>>> would be a way for blind people to use a touch interface and Apple made >>>> it happen in a much more meaningful way than Code Factory did with their >>>> approach. I'm not saying CF was wrong in their approach necessarily, but >>>> it certainly did not provide the type of meaningful interface that would >>>> bring the level of productivity that iOS has. >>>> Of course this is just my opinion. :) >>>> >>>> On Sep 17, 2012, at 5:01 PM, David Chittenden <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The fact is, before apple came out with their revolutionary touch-based >>>>> screen reader, it was not believed blind people could work with touch >>>>> screens in such a way. The closest thing was Mobile Speak who turned the >>>>> touch-screen in to 4 large buttons, and created an invisible talking >>>>> keyboard that covered the entire display. The professional research >>>>> questions were all focused around how to ad tactile feedback in a way >>>>> that would be meaningful to blind people. The basic premise has been >>>>> that blind people could not effectively adapt to an ever-changing visual >>>>> interface. As I read through the professional research and literature, >>>>> this theme remains constant. >>>>> >>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 18/09/2012, at 3:28, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You know I've not been much a fan of Chrome or the ChromVox, but you >>>>>> know I understand it is still early in its development. WHat I am >>>>>> pleased by is the fact that GOogle also is investing in accessibility >>>>>> and I hope other companies will see the benefits and jump on the wagon >>>>>> as well. Do I want to see vendors such as FS or GW Micro go out of >>>>>> business? No, but at the same time if that were to happen it means that >>>>>> finally accessibility has reached a "mainstream" status and that can be >>>>>> a good (as well as a bad ) thing. All this means is if you looked back >>>>>> just five or so years ago, who ever thought we would have access to >>>>>> these touch-screen devices to the level we do today. Actually when you >>>>>> consider the entire 20 plus years of screen reading technology and look >>>>>> just in the last five or six years at what has been accomplished, well >>>>>> it is pretty amazing. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just two other points here. Accessibility like any other project may >>>>>>> have it's priority rise and fall as other projects priorities change >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> as Apple perceives it's lead in the accessibility area growing or >>>>>>> shrinking. this is no different than any other project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that Apple has done a lot as a main stream company with >>>>>>> respect >>>>>>> to accessibility, but I'm not positive that their investment is light >>>>>>> years ahead of other main stream companies. I know for example, >>>>>>> Google >>>>>>> has quite a bit invested in accessibility right now between >>>>>>> ChromeVox, >>>>>>> Android and their on line services, such as Google Docs. IBM also >>>>>>> came >>>>>>> out with their own screen reader for OS/2, which I know is ancient >>>>>>> history, but their investment to accessibility has continued with >>>>>>> contributions to FireFox and the accessibility of products such as >>>>>>> Lotus >>>>>>> Notes, Sametime and Symphony. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also don't see Apple changing on a dime just because Steve Jobs is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> longer with them. Who knows how this will effect Apple in the long >>>>>>> run, >>>>>>> but I'm sure he delegated some things before his death, and I'm sure >>>>>>> there are others at Apple who shared and understood his vision. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 17/09/12 09:36, Marc Rocheleau wrote: >>>>>>>> Hey Scott, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I totally understand what you mean. Like I said, I'm trying not to >>>>>>>> jump the gun or anything -- it's more a paranoia of mine than a >>>>>>>> valid >>>>>>>> fear. I fully acknowledge that Apple has too much money to lose if >>>>>>>> they drop accessibility from their products, especially with the >>>>>>>> communities that have been created online (such as this one) because >>>>>>>> of it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think it's more a case of it feeling too good to be true still. No >>>>>>>> other mainstream companies provide this level of support for the >>>>>>>> blind/visually-impaired, imo, and sometimes it feels like the other >>>>>>>> shoe should be dropping at any second. I know Apple does it for >>>>>>>> money >>>>>>>> but I don't really care as long as I am getting value for my money. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's a reason I'm switching to an iMac in the coming months, after >>>>>>>> all. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Marc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/17/12, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Marc, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Before folks go running off on a tangent about accessibility, Steve >>>>>>>>> Jobs, >>>>>>>>> and so forth I think it is important to point out: >>>>>>>>> 1. Steve Jobs, although a great man, was not the exclusive >>>>>>>>> determining >>>>>>>>> factor for Voiceover in Apple's products. >>>>>>>>> 2. Just because Steve has passed on does not mean Apple will >>>>>>>>> abandon >>>>>>>>> accessibility. >>>>>>>>> 3. There has been articles posted by the U.S. Department of Treasury >>>>>>>>> (a year >>>>>>>>> or two ago) that indicates there are over 100,000 blind/visually >>>>>>>>> impaired >>>>>>>>> users of iPhones. Note iPhones and the article did not mention iPads >>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>> 4. Apple has to balance accessibility against all the other projects >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> are ongoing. There are resources dedicated to many projects and >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> projects get more resources than others. Fact is accessibility may >>>>>>>>> not get >>>>>>>>> the same level of resources as other projects; however, you have to >>>>>>>>> understand it is always a challenge trying to be sure resources are >>>>>>>>> managed >>>>>>>>> in such a way to ensure overall mission/goals/objectives are >>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>> without impacting the largest user community. I may not be >>>>>>>>> explaining that >>>>>>>>> as well as I could, but the idea is you put the resources on >>>>>>>>> whatever will >>>>>>>>> maximize profits and make no mistake that Apple is about making >>>>>>>>> money. Oh >>>>>>>>> and I'm all for Apple making money and buckets of it. MOre money >>>>>>>>> means more >>>>>>>>> resources and more resources means more likelihood accessibility >>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>> attention. >>>>>>>>> 5. Apple is the only "mainstream" company to my knowledge that has >>>>>>>>> invested >>>>>>>>> so heavily into accessibility. >>>>>>>>> 6. A lot of developers have committed to making their apps >>>>>>>>> accessible, so >>>>>>>>> accessibility has really gained such a considerable amount of >>>>>>>>> attention that >>>>>>>>> there is support beyond even this community. You can bet if Apple >>>>>>>>> ever >>>>>>>>> decided to drop accessibility, we would have a good deal of >>>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not lecturing you here Marc, but merely pointing out (because >>>>>>>>> this comes >>>>>>>>> up on the list from time to time) that APple has committed to >>>>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>>>> and like any other aspect of software things get broken and >>>>>>>>> hopefully fixed. >>>>>>>>> I think a lot of the issues we all have experienced from time to >>>>>>>>> time and >>>>>>>>> still do in some cases is not being ignored. When you consider the >>>>>>>>> size and >>>>>>>>> scope of a project such as iOS itself, you can imagine the number of >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> working on such a project. Add to that the layers of management and >>>>>>>>> development protocols etc… I'm not surprised that it takes a while >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> address problems. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Marc Rocheleau >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wow, I sincerely hope that app developers who use VoiceOver have >>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> reporting these problems to Apple's accessibility team. This is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> "VIPhone" Google >>>>>>>>> Group. >>>>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>>> Google Group. >>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>> Google Group. >>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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