My understanding is that MS Windows Phone 8 has an App Store which also must be used. Unfortunately, as there is currently no accessibility in Windows Phone 8, this fact escapes our notice.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 05/08/2013, at 18:23, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit an > application developer from providing a trial or force you to only purchase > applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store policies, > hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is going to use an > in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that Apple gets a piece > of each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the problem and needs to be > part of the solution. > > BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil and > unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I apologized for > that, and I hope my behavior has improved. > > On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote: >> It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand. >> We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the >> refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed. >> Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on >> such topic. >> There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views >> rather than our rational views. >> >> Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers >> offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not >> purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago) >> those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the >> OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself. >> >> So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party >> software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for >> refund, but Apple user seems to do so? >> >> Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it >> is a good way to use it as a complain maganism? >> >> I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on >> Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found >> on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do >> with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac... >> >> Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but >> you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use >> to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle >> rather than a triangular shape that you wanted. >> >> The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua >> Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate >> Send from my iPad >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> *From:* "Aman Singer" <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> *Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST >>> *To:* <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> *Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app >>> refund* >>> *Reply-To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> Hello, David. >>> That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least >>> difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a >>> trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase. >>> You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5 >>> years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at >>> least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one >>> case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about >>> accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the >>> application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return >>> because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with >>> you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else >>> (Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique >>> to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on >>> mobile platforms. >>> Aman >>> >>> al Message----- >>> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Chittenden >>> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund >>> >>> You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the >>> developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility, >>> they will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know >>> what you are talking about. You then take the chance, or you don't >>> take the chance. >>> >>> The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that >>> the software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money, >>> because the software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to >>> give it away as gifts to people I knew would like it. >>> >>> With iOS, unless it's a game, or a very graphically intensive app, you >>> have a 66% chance it will be somewhat accessible. These odds are the >>> best I have had in the computer marketplace, so I do occasionally take >>> chances. And yes, I have lost a couple hundred dollars over the past >>> three years because I have purchased apps that ended up not being >>> accessible. >>> >>> If you don't want to take any chances, use our crowd-sourcing option, >>> applevis. Remember that we have a very small user base, so our >>> crowd-sourcing is quite limited. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 05/08/2013, at 11:44, Maria and Joe Chapman >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> HI. if this option is not viable how do we get around this >>> problem? It's quite unreasonable to think that someone is going to buy >>> an app over say $10 and just say "well there's 10 dollars gone down >>> the drain" and never be able to use the app? This list and applevis is >>> wonderful and the only way I can think to partially solve this problem >>> is to contact an app developer and ask them to test their app with >>> voice over. How do you manage the problem if you want to purchase an >>> app that no one else has tried? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> Maria >>> >>> sent from mac mini >>> email, & fb [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> skype bubbygirl1972 twitter same as skype without the numbers. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 05/08/2013, at 9:34 AM, David Chittenden <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well, given how few blind people there are, and how few apps we >>> actually buy compared with sighted people, and considering that this >>> model would require a complete rewrite and restructuring of the App >>> Store, I seriously doubt it would happen unless Apple receives a great >>> many requests for such. >>> >>> The shareware model of computer software distribution does >>> something like this. Save for small companies, shareware is not >>> usually used because it does not typically make much money because >>> people readily and easily crack the protection schemes. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 05/08/2013, at 11:12, Maria and Joe Chapman >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi. I was thinking more along the lines of the app could >>> be downloaded and is fully functional for a day unless you purchase a >>> key on the mac or do an in app purchase on the iphone. Some apps can >>> be rather expensive, I would not be willing to buy a 10 or 20 dollar >>> app I could not use and probably wouldn't unless I had heard it was at >>> least usable in some way with voice over. How many apps I wonder are >>> not discovered to be accessible because people are afraid to buy them >>> in case they are not usable? >>> >>> >>> >>> regards >>> Maria and crew from australia >>> email: >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> check out >>> www.95-the-mix.com <http://www.95-the-mix.com> >>> <http://www.95-the-mix.com/> >>> where we play lots of great music >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I would rather not give Apple complete access to my >>> phone just so they can occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating >>> apps. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> HI. wouldn't it work better if all apps could be >>> downloaded for free and trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps >>> I'd love to try but am hesitant to download due to the fact that there >>> is really no way to tell if they are accessible or not unless someone >>> on list or someone on applevis has tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c >>> app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's going to get >>> expensive. >>> >>> Warm regards and blessings >>> Maria, Joe and FurBabies >>> Email: iMessage:[email protected] >>> <http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> As I state in another message, I would be much >>> more willing to support a general refund policy, such as Google has, >>> or at least use to have, rather than an it won't work with VoiceOver >>> policy. That is just too open to abuse. Besides, a general refund >>> policy would be an even better way to let developers know if people >>> didn't like their app, a bunch of them all requested refunds. It >>> might even improve accessibility. >>> >>> Arnold Schmidt >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Cara Quinn <mailto:[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes >>> Store support regarding app refund >>> >>> Sieghard and All, >>> >>> Let me encourage you and actually everyone >>> on this list to write Apple Accessibility to request that there be >>> reasonable accommodation in place for VoiceOver users to receive app >>> refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also suggest that Sieghard's >>> note be attached to your own. >>> >>> I believe this issue needs to be brought >>> into the forefront in a positive and decisive way. We are almost 2000 >>> people on this list and this is a very good opportunity to make this >>> point heard. >>> >>> This discussion has come up before of being >>> alerted of VO accessibility ahead of time in the App Store and though >>> we've not come to a set conclusion on the best way to do this, having >>> some indication that an app has been found to be accessible to some >>> degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it is a completely reasonable >>> request. If this is not possible, then it is more than reasonable to >>> ask for refunds if we cannot use an app which is not accessible to us >>> with the available Apple universal access paradigm. >>> >>> the email address for Apple Accessibility is: >>> >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> These are very caring people so please keep >>> this in mind when you write. I've known some of them personally. They >>> want to help though there may not be a clear way of making this happen >>> just yet. Just let them know this is important though. Make your voice >>> heard in a friendly way. they will listen to you even if they do not >>> know the best answer yet. :) >>> >>> Thanks All, for your time. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Cara :) >>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard >>> Weitzel <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello List, >>> >>> Requesting a refund for an app which turns >>> out not to work with Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes >>> Store support email has been posted in connection with that. So I >>> thought I post my recent experience with contacting iTunes Store >>> support via their email. >>> >>> I had bought a couple of package tracking >>> apps in order to find out which one I liked best. I have been using >>> Track This which is awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason >>> they don�t support Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers >>> here. I contacted Track This support twice and never received a reply. >>> >>> Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I >>> provided all the information including order numbers, purchase date, >>> my Apple Id etc. I explained how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the >>> fantastic accessibility, but that unfortunately these two apps I >>> purchased were not voiceover friendly and there was no Light version >>> offered which I could have tried first. I also mentioned that I >>> contacted both developers and after almost a week had not received a >>> reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even waited >>> to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to >>> make Voiceover improvements. >>> >>> I received a prompt reply in which the >>> agent explained that all app sales are final, but that given the >>> situation they would refund me the $6.72 or whatever it was for the 2 >>> apps. However, she also continued to give me links as to their terms >>> and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy and that in >>> the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it was up >>> to me to make sure I didn�t turn on one-click ordering and accidently >>> purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I >>> wanted. It was strange because all of this gave me the impression this >>> person did not at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but >>> on the other hand she said they would give me a refund given the >>> situation. According to what she said I should see the refund back on >>> my account within 48 hours and since both apps were purchased using >>> store credit it would come back as store credit. This is now 2 weeks >>> ago and I replied twice to the initial message to explain that I still >>> had not received the credit and I am getting no more replies. >>> >>> I guess what I want to say here is that >>> those who have done this and received refunds are lucky, but it >>> appears one should definitely not count on getting a refund even if an >>> app turns out not to work with Voiceover. I certainly will not buy an >>> app again thinking I might as well try it because if it doesn�t work I >>> can always ask for a refund. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >> [email protected]. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >> [email protected]. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > [email protected]. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > [email protected]. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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