Hi David and other listers. Indeed Windows phone now has an App Store. I can't remember the name of the apps, but i know they have such store, like Google Play store, and Apple Appstore.
Regards The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 05/08/2013, at 16:37, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote: > My understanding is that MS Windows Phone 8 has an App Store which also must > be used. Unfortunately, as there is currently no accessibility in Windows > Phone 8, this fact escapes our notice. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > > On 05/08/2013, at 18:23, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think the difference here is that MS doesn't do anything to prohibit an >> application developer from providing a trial or force you to only purchase >> applications through their store. Apple, through it's App Store policies, >> hasn't allowed trials in the App Store, unless a developer is going to use >> an in app purchase. I think this is why, plus the fact that Apple gets a >> piece of each App Store sale, means Apple is part of the problem and needs >> to be part of the solution. >> >> BTW, with few exceptions, I think this discussion has been pretty civil and >> unemotional. Unfortunately, I crossed the line myself, but I apologized for >> that, and I hope my behavior has improved. >> >> On 08/05/2013 01:10 AM, Joanne Chua wrote: >>> It seems like now the debate/arguement is out of hand. >>> We are first talking about how unsuccessful some individual get the >>> refund from their so call inaccessible apps to how program got distributed. >>> Regardless of what it is, everyone got their own opinion, and views on >>> such topic. >>> There is no right and wrong, but often, we use our emotional views >>> rather than our rational views. >>> >>> Yes, indeed, there're hundrets and thousands of software developers >>> offer trial software, and you can then choose to purchase or not >>> purchase the software. But, as far as i know (which is not 5 years ago) >>> those trial softwares have nothing to do with Micro Soft, or any of the >>> OS developer. It got to do with the developer itself. >>> >>> So, why don't blind pc users complain to Microsoft for some third party >>> software that don't work with windows and demanding microsoft for >>> refund, but Apple user seems to do so? >>> >>> Is that because, Apple listen to users voice and some people, think, it >>> is a good way to use it as a complain maganism? >>> >>> I'm not saying this is wrong. Just like, i know someone who use Jaws on >>> Window with BootCam. Wrote to FreedomScientific for some bug they found >>> on Jaws, and FreedomScientific respond is that, they have nothing to do >>> with it cause it operates on Mac, and Jaws doesn't operate on Mac... >>> >>> Yes, you can not to pay, even sue the restorant for undercook food, but >>> you can't sue the restorant for not using the knifes and fork you use >>> to, the brand of tomato sauce you like, or the napkin foulded in circle >>> rather than a triangular shape that you wanted. >>> >>> The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.Joanne Chua >>> Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate >>> Send from my iPad >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> *From:* "Aman Singer" <aman.sin...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:aman.sin...@gmail.com>> >>>> *Date:* 5 August 2013 15:11:15 ACST >>>> *To:* <viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> >>>> *Subject:* *RE: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app >>>> refund* >>>> *Reply-To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>> >>>> Hello, David. >>>> That's just the point. It is not impossible, but it is at least >>>> difficult, to find a program on the PC which does not have either a >>>> trial or a method through which a user may examine it before purchase. >>>> You seem, if I may say so, to be thinking about things as they were 5 >>>> years ago rather than as they are now. I have, in the past 5 years at >>>> least, never purchased a program I didn't know I could use. The one >>>> case where I wrote to a developer before a purchase to ask about >>>> accessibility was where the program had to do with tax filing, and the >>>> application was, obviously, not suitable for timed trial or return >>>> because it had only one use in a limited time. I happen to agree with >>>> you that getting Apple to implement a trial system like everyone else >>>> (Google, Amazon, etc) is highly unlikely, but this is a problem unique >>>> to Apple. Everyone else is offering trials, both on the PC and on >>>> mobile platforms. >>>> Aman >>>> >>>> al Message----- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>> [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden >>>> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:47 AM >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>> Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes Store support regarding app refund >>>> >>>> You manage it the same way you manage it with a PC. You contact the >>>> developer. If the developer has specifically addressed accessibility, >>>> they will tell you. If not, they will say no, or they will not know >>>> what you are talking about. You then take the chance, or you don't >>>> take the chance. >>>> >>>> The only difference is, with the PC, you have about a 10% chance that >>>> the software will be accessible. If it isn't, you wasted your money, >>>> because the software cannot be returned once you open it. I used to >>>> give it away as gifts to people I knew would like it. >>>> >>>> With iOS, unless it's a game, or a very graphically intensive app, you >>>> have a 66% chance it will be somewhat accessible. These odds are the >>>> best I have had in the computer marketplace, so I do occasionally take >>>> chances. And yes, I have lost a couple hundred dollars over the past >>>> three years because I have purchased apps that ended up not being >>>> accessible. >>>> >>>> If you don't want to take any chances, use our crowd-sourcing option, >>>> applevis. Remember that we have a very small user base, so our >>>> crowd-sourcing is quite limited. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 05/08/2013, at 11:44, Maria and Joe Chapman >>>> <bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> HI. if this option is not viable how do we get around this >>>> problem? It's quite unreasonable to think that someone is going to buy >>>> an app over say $10 and just say "well there's 10 dollars gone down >>>> the drain" and never be able to use the app? This list and applevis is >>>> wonderful and the only way I can think to partially solve this problem >>>> is to contact an app developer and ask them to test their app with >>>> voice over. How do you manage the problem if you want to purchase an >>>> app that no one else has tried? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Maria >>>> >>>> sent from mac mini >>>> email, & fb bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com> >>>> skype bubbygirl1972 twitter same as skype without the numbers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/08/2013, at 9:34 AM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, given how few blind people there are, and how few apps we >>>> actually buy compared with sighted people, and considering that this >>>> model would require a complete rewrite and restructuring of the App >>>> Store, I seriously doubt it would happen unless Apple receives a great >>>> many requests for such. >>>> >>>> The shareware model of computer software distribution does >>>> something like this. Save for small companies, shareware is not >>>> usually used because it does not typically make much money because >>>> people readily and easily crack the protection schemes. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 05/08/2013, at 11:12, Maria and Joe Chapman >>>> <bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi. I was thinking more along the lines of the app could >>>> be downloaded and is fully functional for a day unless you purchase a >>>> key on the mac or do an in app purchase on the iphone. Some apps can >>>> be rather expensive, I would not be willing to buy a 10 or 20 dollar >>>> app I could not use and probably wouldn't unless I had heard it was at >>>> least usable in some way with voice over. How many apps I wonder are >>>> not discovered to be accessible because people are afraid to buy them >>>> in case they are not usable? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> regards >>>> Maria and crew from australia >>>> email: >>>> bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com> >>>> check out >>>> www.95-the-mix.com <http://www.95-the-mix.com> >>>> <http://www.95-the-mix.com/> >>>> where we play lots of great music >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/08/2013, at 9:01 AM, David Chittenden >>>> <dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I would rather not give Apple complete access to my >>>> phone just so they can occasionally check to ensure I am not pirating >>>> apps. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 05/08/2013, at 10:41, Maria and Joe Chapman >>>> <bubbygirl1...@gmail.com <mailto:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> HI. wouldn't it work better if all apps could be >>>> downloaded for free and trialled say for a day? There are lots of apps >>>> I'd love to try but am hesitant to download due to the fact that there >>>> is really no way to tell if they are accessible or not unless someone >>>> on list or someone on applevis has tried them. I mean if it's a 99 c >>>> app it's not that bad but if it's 5 or 10 bucks? That's going to get >>>> expensive. >>>> >>>> Warm regards and blessings >>>> Maria, Joe and FurBabies >>>> Email: iMessage:bubbygirl1...@gmail.com >>>> <http://gmail.com> <http://gmail.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03/08/2013, at 6:02 PM, Arnold Schmidt >>>> <arno...@mindspring.com <mailto:arno...@mindspring.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> As I state in another message, I would be much >>>> more willing to support a general refund policy, such as Google has, >>>> or at least use to have, rather than an it won't work with VoiceOver >>>> policy. That is just too open to abuse. Besides, a general refund >>>> policy would be an even better way to let developers know if people >>>> didn't like their app, a bunch of them all requested refunds. It >>>> might even improve accessibility. >>>> >>>> Arnold Schmidt >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Cara Quinn <mailto:modelc...@gmail.com> >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Bad experience with iTunes >>>> Store support regarding app refund >>>> >>>> Sieghard and All, >>>> >>>> Let me encourage you and actually everyone >>>> on this list to write Apple Accessibility to request that there be >>>> reasonable accommodation in place for VoiceOver users to receive app >>>> refunds in cases like Sieghard's. I'd also suggest that Sieghard's >>>> note be attached to your own. >>>> >>>> I believe this issue needs to be brought >>>> into the forefront in a positive and decisive way. We are almost 2000 >>>> people on this list and this is a very good opportunity to make this >>>> point heard. >>>> >>>> This discussion has come up before of being >>>> alerted of VO accessibility ahead of time in the App Store and though >>>> we've not come to a set conclusion on the best way to do this, having >>>> some indication that an app has been found to be accessible to some >>>> degree with VoiceOver before we purchase it is a completely reasonable >>>> request. If this is not possible, then it is more than reasonable to >>>> ask for refunds if we cannot use an app which is not accessible to us >>>> with the available Apple universal access paradigm. >>>> >>>> the email address for Apple Accessibility is: >>>> >>>> accessibil...@apple.com <mailto:accessibil...@apple.com> >>>> >>>> These are very caring people so please keep >>>> this in mind when you write. I've known some of them personally. They >>>> want to help though there may not be a clear way of making this happen >>>> just yet. Just let them know this is important though. Make your voice >>>> heard in a friendly way. they will listen to you even if they do not >>>> know the best answer yet. :) >>>> >>>> Thanks All, for your time. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Cara :) >>>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Sieghard >>>> Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca <mailto:siegh...@live.ca>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello List, >>>> >>>> Requesting a refund for an app which turns >>>> out not to work with Voiceover has come up a few times and the iTunes >>>> Store support email has been posted in connection with that. So I >>>> thought I post my recent experience with contacting iTunes Store >>>> support via their email. >>>> >>>> I had bought a couple of package tracking >>>> apps in order to find out which one I liked best. I have been using >>>> Track This which is awesome, but I am in Canada and for some reason >>>> they don�t support Purolator and CanPar which are both major carriers >>>> here. I contacted Track This support twice and never received a reply. >>>> >>>> Anyhow, back to iTunes Store support. I >>>> provided all the information including order numbers, purchase date, >>>> my Apple Id etc. I explained how I really enjoyed my iPhone and the >>>> fantastic accessibility, but that unfortunately these two apps I >>>> purchased were not voiceover friendly and there was no Light version >>>> offered which I could have tried first. I also mentioned that I >>>> contacted both developers and after almost a week had not received a >>>> reply. In short, I was friendly, explained everything and even waited >>>> to see if the developers would reply to see if they were willing to >>>> make Voiceover improvements. >>>> >>>> I received a prompt reply in which the >>>> agent explained that all app sales are final, but that given the >>>> situation they would refund me the $6.72 or whatever it was for the 2 >>>> apps. However, she also continued to give me links as to their terms >>>> and conditions and said that this was a one-time curtocy and that in >>>> the future they could not provide any more refunds and that it was up >>>> to me to make sure I didn�t turn on one-click ordering and accidently >>>> purchase apps or read the app description to be sure it was what I >>>> wanted. It was strange because all of this gave me the impression this >>>> person did not at all get the point about Voiceover and all that, but >>>> on the other hand she said they would give me a refund given the >>>> situation. According to what she said I should see the refund back on >>>> my account within 48 hours and since both apps were purchased using >>>> store credit it would come back as store credit. This is now 2 weeks >>>> ago and I replied twice to the initial message to explain that I still >>>> had not received the credit and I am getting no more replies. >>>> >>>> I guess what I want to say here is that >>>> those who have done this and received refunds are lucky, but it >>>> appears one should definitely not count on getting a refund even if an >>>> app turns out not to work with Voiceover. I certainly will not buy an >>>> app again thinking I might as well try it because if it doesn�t work I >>>> can always ask for a refund. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> >>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> >>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google Group. >>>> >>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> >>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> >>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- >> Christopher (CJ) >> chaltain at Gmail >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit 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