ChemE and Dave--
Suppose the damage to the reef is to microscopic reef larva or other growth
phase of the reef organism that lives near or on surface. Is there enough
energy impinging the surface at a steep angle, for example a surface of a small
wave or ripple to affect a small egg cell or young organism—the hydrogen bonds
of its DNA for example?
I do not know much about the life cycle of reef animals to know if the eggs
ever reach the surface.
However, if Dave is correct about the disposition of a radar beam in salt
water, it seems it would be at the surface where the damage would be most
likely. And I would think it could be in damage to DNA considering the rather
fragile bonding of that molecule. Resonant frequencies associated with radar
beams may not be tolerated well by the reef’s DNA, where as, UV and other
natural RF in the envirnment it has evolved to live-with.
Bob Cook
From: David Roberson
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
Rectification of the signal can cause small DC currents as you suggest. Any
non linear behavior that treats both the positive and negative RF swings
equally can not result in DC generation but instead causes harmonic generation
of the RF carrier. Do you consider salt water as capable of behaving
differently to the positive versus negative instantaneous RF voltage and
current waveforms? Where is a reference to this behavior?
The high frequency RF signal itself can not penetrate the water to any
significant degree due to reflections from the surface. Also, keep in mind
that radar signals are aimed to keep their energy toward targets that are above
the water surface in general, especially close by. And the beam widths are so
narrow that only a small portion of the radiated RF impacts the water near the
antenna.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. <[email protected]>
To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 5:50 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
Any non-linearity in a medium like salt water will cause baseband currents.
From: David Roberson [mailto:[email protected]?]
Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 2:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
You are kidding right?
Any signal that shows up is merely being translated in frequency from its
original location down to the baseband. The only signal received is very close
in frequency to the carrier wave. The modulation signal at the low Hertz rate
is visible at the receiver output, but it was not radiated by the transmitter.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ChemE Stewart <[email protected]>
To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
David,
Of course the low frequency square pulses show up on receivers, that is how
pulsed doppler works!
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/articles/images/Signal-Analysis-Modern-Radar-R-S-6.jpg
When it is on (every pulse) a weather radar puts out ~1,000,000 WATTS, (32
billion watts EIRP)
Stewart
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 2:10 PM, David Roberson <[email protected]> wrote:
Come on now Stewart. If you take the time to analyze the spectrum of a pulsed
radar signal, you will find that all of the energy is contained in a location
surrounding the carrier frequency. Also, how well do you think a dish radar
antenna being feed by a bandwidth limited waveguide is going to radiate those
200 to 1000 Hz signals? If you can show me where any significant amount of
that low frequency is radiated I will assume that you are knowledgeable in RF
design.
It is easy to convince people that know nothing about radio and radar systems
to be concerned about unimportant issues. And, as everyone knows, statistics
can prove just about anything that you wish to prove based upon the
restrictions that are placed upon the data that is analyzed.
The same type of reasoning is used to keep kids from being vaccinated or
cellular antenna locations from being located in the ideal places. We need
real science instead of variable statistics to settle these issues properly.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ChemE Stewart <[email protected]>
To: vortex-l <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
Dave, the pulse train is a square wave, with the "on" amplitude approx 900'
long or longer depending upon duty cycle, bouncing between clouds/planes and
the suface of the ocean
Just one weather radar has an EIRP of 32 billion watts of power, which gets
ducted and scattered by planes and the atmosphere, more during storms.
Mildly shocking biology with every pulse, depending upon impedence
Electricity can kill you in a nanosecond, each radar pulse is 1000 times longer
that that in duration.
Admit it, you sparkies screwed up :)
Stewart
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015, David Roberson < [email protected]> wrote:
The radar pulse rate does not effect the penetration into the water. In other
words, the 200 to 1000 Hz rate is applied to the carrier and does not
independently appear anywhere else.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ChemE Stewart < [email protected]>
To: vortex-l < [email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2015 8:12 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible cause for coral reefs dying...
VLF radio waves (3–30 kHz) can penetrate seawater to a depth of approximately
20 meters. Hence a submarine at shallow depth can use these frequencies.
Most of the radars pulse at 200-1000 Hz.
Most of the coral disease is in shallow water <20 meters
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015, ChemE Stewart < [email protected]> wrote:
Except low pulsed frequencies
On Tuesday, July 7, 2015, James Bowery < [email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:42 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint <[email protected]> wrote:
This is primarily meant for fellow Vort, ChemEng (Stewart), but some others may
have an interest…
Stewart, I think I may have a cause for your hypothesis re: a link between our
modern radar systems and the dying of coral reefs…
...
Time to break out the tin-foil hats???
No need. Salt water shields against EM penetration.
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