his ex wife Sheila said that Joe was full of you know what if he really believed the marriage was flawed from the get-go, after 12 years and twin boys. However, she said she mostly did it because didn't want the kids to be illegitimate, which is never the case with annulments. The kids are always legitimate if the parents were married in the first place.
--- In [email protected], "l1ndylady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm sorry I was just being nosy and wondering if I had mnissed > something. what caused the annulment to be reversed? > > Just like Jewish, Catholics have a lot of guilt which often makes us > a but wry and funny. Besides Catholic school uniforms are funny > looking > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ellen" > <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > Joe Kennedy II, one of Bobby Kennedy's 11 children, got his 11 year > > old annulment reversed by the vatican yesterday or the day before. > > He and his ex wife live in Boston, as do I, so it was on the local > > news and in the papers. I was kind of aware of the annulment > thing, > > but it made me wonder why divorce was such a big deal in > Catholicism, > > or not recognized, or whatever. I realize this group is supposed > to > > be humor-centric, or at least Gene-centric, but Gene talks about > > religion all the time so I though y'all might have some insight. > > Several folks have mentioned their Catholic school upbringing, so I > > figured they would know more about it than I do. If a topic is not > > of interest to the chatters it tends to be ignored, so I figured > > either people would reply or not find it of interest and not reply, > > in which case it would fade away. > > > > --- In [email protected], "l1ndylady" <geniec87@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Cheating on your spouse breaks the 10 comandments (coveting thy > > > neighbors wife) > > > as such it is frowned upon because it is a sin. > > > Getting an annulment can be easy or hard depending on what > dioscese > > > you live in. In some cases it is not much harder to get then a > > > divorce in others much harder. > > > Ellen why are you asking about this? > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ellen" > > > <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > yeah, well, you know, people change, and become alcoholics, and > > > > criminals, and all kinds of fun things. What's the Catholic > take > > > on > > > > infidelity and marriage and divorce? If someone is unfaithful > in > > > the > > > > marriage can they still not get divorced, or is that grounds > for > > > > annulment because obviously the marriage was flawed in the > first > > > > place? My understanding is that infidelity in Catholicism is > > > really > > > > bad. It's bad in Judaism too, but worse in Catholicism. Not > > sure > > > if > > > > this is the case, though. > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "dvm8375" > > > > <muellerdana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That's all well and good, Ellen, but in traditional Jewish > law, > > > you > > > > > would never be allowed to ask for a divorce; only your > husband > > > > > could. My parents were married by an Orthodox rabbi in > Israel, > > > and > > > > > when my parents separated, she could file the civil > > proceedings, > > > > but > > > > > she had to wait several years for my dad to pursue a "get" > (he > > > > > finally decided he wanted to remarry). The way she describes > > it, > > > > it > > > > > was a pretty humiliating experience, down to my (alchoholic, > > > > > abusive) father claiming she was an unfit wife and mother and > > > > > spitting on her. > > > > > > > > > > Before getting married in a Catholic church, the couple has > to > > > > > undergo mandatory pre-marriage counseling. Basically, the > > church > > > > > takes marriage seriously, and wants to do everything to > > encourage > > > > > couples to only enter the sacrament if they can stick it out, > > > > > therefore making divorce unnecessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ellen" > > > > > <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jewish divorce isn't perfect by any means, but at least it > > > > exists. > > > > > > BTW at least originally you didn't have to have a > legitimate > > > > > reason > > > > > > to get divorced. You just told your wife you were getting > a > > > > > divorce > > > > > > and that was it. Met someone you liked better? No > problem. > > I > > > > > think > > > > > > there should be a happy medium between no divorce for any > > > reason, > > > > > any > > > > > > divorce for no reason, but I would take the Jewish process > as > > > the > > > > > > lesser of 2 evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Max H." > <MaxH42@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have found the use/interpretation of the Get by some > > > Chasidic > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lubavicher communities to be as hostile towards women as > > the > > > > > > practices of > > > > > > > many other fundamentalist religions. I think the > difference > > > is > > > > > > that, as far > > > > > > > as I am aware, those two sects don't hold significant > > > political > > > > > > power over > > > > > > > any non-believers anywhere in the world, so their beliefs > > > only > > > > > hold > > > > > > sway > > > > > > > over their adherents, as opposed to some certain > > > fundamentalist > > > > > > Christian, > > > > > > > Muslim, and Hindu sects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Max > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/21/07, Ellen <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe Kennedy II's annulment of his first marriage was > > > reversed > > > > > 11 > > > > > > > > years after the divorce, and he has since remarried. in > > the > > > > > eyes > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the church he is still married to his first wife > > > apparently. > > > > > What > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the deal with Catholics and divorce? Jews have had > > divorce > > > no > > > > > > > > problem since the religion began as far as I can tell. > > > > > Granted it > > > > > > > > hasn't always been equitable between genders and there > > has > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > legitimate reasons, but it's better than it being > > completely > > > > > > > > forbidden. Is it because if a divorced person > remarries > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > longer a virgin and therefore somehow sinful? Is it a > > sin > > > to > > > > > > realize > > > > > > > > after the fact that you married the wrong person or > that > > > you > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > grew apart? Annulment says the marriage was flawed > from > > the > > > > > > > > beginning. If you get divorced after 10 or 15 years > that > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > wasn't the case. I apologize for my naivete, but I > truly > > > > > don't > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > it. I guess because my religion's take is so totally > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > Jews are like, so you had sex with someone else before > > you > > > > met > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > That's cool, no problem. You filled out the official > > > > > paperwork to > > > > > > > > end it, that's all that matters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is serious stuff--if you get a divorce but not an > > > > > annulment > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Catholicism and you remarry you are basically > committing > > > > bigamy > > > > > > > > apparently. No sacraments, no communion, etc. Can > > someone > > > > > please > > > > > > > > enlighten me as to the underlying reason for this? > Thank > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
