john w. bjerk wrote:
A while ago on IRC some devs were discussing a branch of the Elvish
scout line that would be a more effective fighter. It could attack
and then use the rest of it's MPs to escape. While driving across the
country for Thanksgiving, i gave it some thought:
Such an ability seems like it could a heightened version of Skirmish
(as "cures" is a better version of "heals"), because normal units loose
all MP when standing next to an enemy, weather or not they attack. It
would be counterintuitive if this scout could only ignore ZoC after it
attacks someone-- so essentially it has the skirmish ability and more.
Hello
First of all, I would like to talk about how current skirmish works.
Of course it ignores ZoC, but how can/do we use it? There are I think 2
main usages of a unit with this ability:
- weak units killer - sneak behind line and kill units with low hp which
are precious for the opponent (lvl2/near advance/leader etc)
- unit blocker - very useful, it can 'sneak' at back of enemy group of
units (for example just before enemy is about to retreat) and help
defeat them;
Now if we would like to give it hit&run advantage, then first usage -
as weak units killer - would be really powerful. Now it is balanced,
that unit which sneaks behind lines to kill unit, has high chance that
he won't get out out of there alive. With hit&run - I don't have to
explain how it would look like.
What about if unit level up - will it be able to still move back?
Here comes my question - which units need to have this kind of
powerful ability? For sure not any of lvl1 units (image of saurians with
hit&run scares me). Honestly, I can think about giving this for one/some
of the lvl2 units, but I'm afraid of: jump -> slaughter/heavy-wound ->
go_back_on_defensive_terrian super units. I think the problem won't be
hit&run itself - it would be fact that you want to combine it with skirmish.
So what if give it for an existing lvl2 unit?
The unit would need serious rebalancing - which would be rather hard
in this case. Firstly because how would we change the stats of this
unit? Giving less power while advancing would make hit&run less
powerful, but unit would lose its ability to deal serious damage as lvl2
unit, thus would become average in most situations, and really good in
some others. Not making the unit resilient when upgrading can be also a
problem because it would become an easy target for it's 16 XP.
We could make it have different disadvantage like less hp/resistances
- but then it would be hard for this unit to survive a battle - this
_can_ work, but I can bet, that this unit could not operate alone then,
or it would become numer one target during the opponent's turn. Of
course it is all about tactic - you can predict it, and protect it.
Problem is that it is big change of roles - lvl1 skirmishers are rather
good fighters able to survive on their own - making it special instead
of fighter unit (usually on MP lvl2 units advancing from lvl1 fighter
line are one of first-line blockers) would make much difference in role
and the way that unit line is designed.
Another thing is that while attacking, having few units of thise kind
can really turn tide of battle - you can attack with them, then move
back and you have free spot next to enemy again! It's even hard to say
how powerful this can be. Also there is still the problem of balancing
the cost of the unit. The Ability might be too powerful, to make the
unit's price reasonable.
Hit&run idea is really intresting one. But I have few proposals from
balancing point of view:
1.If we will combine it with skirmish (which I think will make this
ability too powerful, and I don't like this idea), don't add it to
existing unit - make branch which maybe would have only this lvl2 -
which wouldn't be able to advance to lvl3. This way player could have
possibility of chosing between unit with hit&run or without it. (still
even if unit can't advance, it doesn't mean it can be overpowered)
2. Idea for making it more balanced if combined with skirmish - disallow
ignoring ZoC after attack.
3. Make it as separate hit%run ability.
In both last cases remain problem of freeing spot next to enemy after
attacking. 3rd one is IMHO best, because we don't combine 2 powerful
abilites.
If this ability is created, the assasin would conceptually be a good
canidate to recieve it.
I completly disagree based on gameplay reasons. Reason that assassin
with backstab and poison isn't overpowered, is that it has to risk
getting killed during opponent's turn. Hit&run would make it just poison
factory without any disadvantage, and with hit&run he will go behind
enemy line - backstab, and go back to good defensive position.
I didn't want to start a huge forum topic, so i added some thoughts
this way..
-eleazar
I agree - 'Ideas' section on fourm board is often not the best place to
discuss such things.
Bartek
