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Throw in JSR-170 in the mix and have some fun...

Troy MacNeil wrote:
> De-lurking twice in one day, rare indeed;) I'm very much in favour of
> the "toolkit with a capable sample application" approach though. 
> 
> When I've used PHP I've found that the concept of a plug-in for a PHP
> CMS is very informal and undefined. If you want to create a file upload
> plug-in you write a file upload page. You tie it into the rest of the
> CMS almost as an afterthought. 
> 
> This lack of rigour leads to some very ugly plug-ins code wise, but
> makes it very easy to write a plug-in or change existing functionality.
> I think that is why there is such a community and so many available
> (often overlapping) plug-ins.
> 
> The Java response to this (JSR-107) has been to create large monolithic
> CMSs which use template engines to hide some of the complexity. In
> practise, it makes does make basic templating simple while extending
> functionality or adding new functionality actually becomes more
> daunting.
> 
> I think this would ultimately be just as true of a large CMS using
> Wicket for presentation as any of the other presentation layers in use.
> 
> I also think it misses the point. Simplify database access with
> Hibernate. Simplify the presentation by hiding complex code in
> components. Ditch templating in favour of some loosely coupled Wicket
> pages using Wickets own HTML separation. I think you'd end up with
> something that competes very well with PHP in terms of simplicity and
> ease of modification while retaining access to the benefits of Java. 
> 
> All this is just my opinion, and a simpler sample application like what
> I envision could easily grow into a larger CMS with time or co-exist
> with a more ambitious CMS project.
> 
> Troy
> 
> On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 17:24 -0400, Hugh Willson wrote:
>> Hi Erik!
>>
>> I understand your CMS component approach, and it makes a lot of sense.
>>  I also, however, do see the benefit of creating a full blown CMS in
>> Wicket.  I've used a lot of different open sources CMS', and I really
>> have yet to find one created using Java that I like.  PHP holds the
>> crown when it comes to open source CMS' - not because PHP is superior
>> in any way (although it may be in some areas :-), but because of the
>> community surrounding PHP based CMS'.  The community is incredible!
>> Third party development for Joomla, Drupal and Typo3 blows my mind!  I
>> like writing code in Java, and focusing on really clean OO models.
>> Because of this, I want to use a clean, simple and modular CMS that I
>> can extend easily using Java (and that allows me to take advantage of
>> the enormous amounts of high quality Java libraries available).  This
>> is where I see Wicket coming into play - it really helps keep things
>> simple and clean.  Oh ya, and it's fun to work with!!! :-)  I
>> definitely can see the advantages and situations where the components
>> you've mentioned would come in handy, but I can also see certain
>> situations where a full blown, simple, elegant, and fun to work with
>> CMS would help make our lives easier.
>>
>> Hugh.
>>
>> On 8/29/06, Erik Brakkee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> CMS is something that I have been very interested in.  I'd love to have
>>>> such a thing, but have avoided building one myself because, as you say,
>>>> I do have other projects that I work on.  Starting up a CMS by myself
>>>> would take more time than I could give.  But to collaborate on a CMS
>>>> with others....  That I can do.  :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I would also be willing to help. But just to clarify what I meant, I
>>> don't want to develop a CMS, but develop CMS components for use in
>>> wicket applications. In other words, what I am looking for are
>>> components usable in any wicket application with the only dependency
>>> being wicket-core (and possibly wicket-auth). Given the wide choice of
>>> CMSs out there, it would not make sense to develop yet another CMS.
>>>
>>> Eelco wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd be interested in helping out here and there too. A joint effort
>>>> would be great. Though we should be careful not to let such a project
>>>> fall in the 'designed by committee' category.
>>> That is my fear as well, especially if we would focus on standards such
>>> as JSR-170 too much. In my opinion, the focus should be on a good
>>> object-oriented design of the components themselves with friendly
>>> interfaces, and on keeping it simple.
>>>
>>> I intend to write a comments component for my application anyway
>>> (because I need it), so that could serve as a starting point for further
>>> discussions. Or, slightly rephrased, how do we start?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
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> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
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- --
Justin Lee
http://www.antwerkz.com
AIM : evan chooly
Skype : evanchooly
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
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