An experiment I'd be more than willing to think about, is to have a 'real wikimania' every two years, and a more 'light edition' the other year (with less aimed attendance, less WMF participation, maybe less subsidised, a cheaper location, more like a wikicamp).
But, to look at that in a proper way, we have to know a bit more details, and that requires a good discussion, rather than a one-off survey. Lodewijk On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> wrote: > Hoi, > > Again, we have not "proven" in any way that it has to be cheap. When cheap > comes at the prize of losing what is precious. > > When we choose to ignore the cost of WMF travel of personnel, we > effectively cook the books because the need for WMF inclusion is high. It > is one of the aspects that makes Wikimania precious. > > Much of the value of Wikimania is in meeting people from all over the > world. This is happily ignored in a quest for a cheap experience. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 19 February 2016 at 02:06, Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation' > or > > general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead. > > * Staff have a budget for travel to events of all kinds; the Board has > a > > budget for its meetings wherever they are held; and similarly the few > > committees that meet in person have a budget for those meetings. > > * The fact that these things happen to take place at Wikimania is, if > > anything, a slight cost savings: some of the logistics of scheduling and > > finding venues can be shared, it allows coordinating press events, &c. > > > > > > Lodewijk, I agree: we should be able to find ways to limit direct > expenses, > > and increase sponsorships. We could also increase the number of people > who > > benefit from scholarships, or are otherwise able to attend. > > > > Focusing on direct expenses from recent Wikimanias: > > * 2014 budget: $250K revenue + a $150K WMF grant. Actual: $280K > revenue, > > needed $320K from WMF to cover direct expenses > > * 2015 budget: $150K revenue + a $300K WMF grant. Actual: $100K > revenue, > > needed $380K from WMF to cover direct expenses > > * 2016 budget: $290K? revenue + a $250K WMF grant. > > > > Itzik, what were the equivalent budgets for Haifa? From the post-mortem > on > > Meta it looks like a $280K budget, and a $100K WMF grant. This included > > paying for the event coordinator, which is now budgeted separately. That > > was for the finest event one could hope for. > > > > > > Lodewijk writes: > > > 'wikimania direct' is quite expensive, to be honest, and much more > than I > > > would have expected. However, it does include catering, which is always > > > an expensive chunk... > > > > Registration fees should at least cover the marginal cost of the event: > > catering & materials per person. > > > > > > > looking at these figures, I can agree that it should be possible to do > it > > for > > > less, I'm less certain though whether the proposed splitting up would > > > significantly reduce the total costs for everything that is included > > here. > > > > The greater part of money spent on attending Wikimania is the > out-of-pocket > > cost of flights and hotels. The cost of this for non-local attendees is > > 10-50x the cost of registration. Running many simultaneous local events > > has a greater total budget, if you look only at the budgets of the > > organizers; but a much lower cost per person. There are many more > options > > for free venues and low-cost lodging when you're not scrambling to fit > 1000 > > people in a small region of a city. And a smaller fraction of money > spent > > goes towards jet fuel. > > > > For this reason, the same pool of scholarship funds would go farther. > > > > Finally, I don't think we should oversell the current Wikimania as a > > universal connector. I too want there to be a community thing that > builds > > interpersonal connections and is accessible to every community member at > > low cost. But that thing cannot be a $2,000-net-cost week-long > > conference. Many people could never attend such an event, even if it > were > > free. It is a long time commitment, and is inevitably mono or bilingual. > > > > Sam > > (who loves the current Wikimanias, and thinks they should continue! but > > doesn't think they are the pinnacle of what movement-gatherings could be) > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Sam Klein <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > That's most helpful, thank you both. > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Pharos <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks, Ellie and Chris, this historical experience should be very > > helpful > > >> for future discussions! > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Pharos > > >> > > >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Chris Schilling < > > >> [email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Hey folks, > > >> > > > >> > Ellie has put together a summarized budget including revenue and > > >> expenses > > >> > from Wikimania 2014 in London[1] and Wikimania 2015[2], which I've > > gone > > >> > ahead and posted to the summary pages of these conferences on meta. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > > > >> > Chris > > >> > > > >> > [1] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014> > > >> > [2] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015> > > >> > > > >> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Samuel Klein <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Itzik writes: > > >> > > > > >> > > > If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be great > if > > >> the > > >> > > WMF and the local team will share the costs. > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Budget > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015/Budget > > >> > > > Maybe I missed something, but it's strange that such discussion > > >> takes > > >> > > place without a real budget breakdown. > > >> > > > To summarize 2 huge event to "1$ million USD" does not make > sense. > > >> > > > > >> > > Agreed 1million%. It would be important to see a rough cost > > >> breakdown, & > > >> > > compare that to the best-budgeted Wikimanias. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Tomasz Ganicz < > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > 2016-02-10 6:06 GMT+01:00 Samuel Klein <[email protected]>: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > FUDCons > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Also it is hard to compare Wikimanias with FUDCons as it is > > >> > > > a) much smaller (usually bo more than 200 attendees) > > >> > > > b) divided by regions - for example in 2015 there were 3 FUDCons > > >> > > > (Argentina, India, Spain) and 2 Flocks (NY and Kraków) - so > they > > >> are > > >> > > > rather like our Iberecop or CEE meetings than the global > > >> conferences. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Thanks. Similar to regional events perhaps, not Wikimania. Still > > >> worth > > >> > > comparing budgets perhaps, if available. > > >> > > > > >> > > But I was wondering about the trend over time: whether extensive > > >> funding > > >> > > during the RedHat days made the events less useful, in the years > > after > > >> > that > > >> > > funding was reduced. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > And also Fedora developers have many potential sources of > external > > >> > > funding > > >> > > > - mainly from IT companies which uses free software and want to > > >> apply > > >> > for > > >> > > > their specific needs and for whom they quite often work. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > True. But attendees to GLAM or education conferences also tend to > > >> have > > >> > > many potential sources of funding - mainly from archives or > > >> educational > > >> > or > > >> > > technical companies who curate knowledge or develop education > tools. > > >> And > > >> > we > > >> > > have IT industry partners who are similarly willing to support > > >> > Wikimanias. > > >> > > Not entirely dissimilar. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > But anyway, Fedora offers scholarships for attendees, see: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Yes, wiki conferences should as well - that part of conference > > >> funding is > > >> > > important. Even early Wikimanias with almost no WMF support had > > >> > > significant scholarship pools. > > >> > > > > >> > > S > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > > New messages to: [email protected] > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > >> , > > >> > > <mailto:[email protected] > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Chris "Jethro" Schilling > > >> > I JethroBT (WMF) < > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:I_JethroBT_(WMF) > > >> > > > >> > Community Organizer, Wikimedia Foundation > > >> > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > New messages to: [email protected] > > >> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > >> > <mailto:[email protected] > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> New messages to: [email protected] > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > > 4266 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > 4266 > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: [email protected] > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
