I'd like to second Lodewijk's suggestion of something more like Wikicamp, though I don't think that necessarily means it has be much smaller.
I wonder how the economics of something like the Wikimedia Armenia experience would expand to a larger, more international participation. Personally, it has always been my ambition to host a WikiWoodstock in an upstate New York campground, but that's just me :) Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > An experiment I'd be more than willing to think about, is to have a 'real > wikimania' every two years, and a more 'light edition' the other year (with > less aimed attendance, less WMF participation, maybe less subsidised, a > cheaper location, more like a wikicamp). > > But, to look at that in a proper way, we have to know a bit more details, > and that requires a good discussion, rather than a one-off survey. > > Lodewijk > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > > > Again, we have not "proven" in any way that it has to be cheap. When > cheap > > comes at the prize of losing what is precious. > > > > When we choose to ignore the cost of WMF travel of personnel, we > > effectively cook the books because the need for WMF inclusion is high. It > > is one of the aspects that makes Wikimania precious. > > > > Much of the value of Wikimania is in meeting people from all over the > > world. This is happily ignored in a quest for a cheap experience. > > Thanks, > > GerardM > > > > On 19 February 2016 at 02:06, Samuel Klein <meta...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation' > > or > > > general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead. > > > * Staff have a budget for travel to events of all kinds; the Board > has > > a > > > budget for its meetings wherever they are held; and similarly the few > > > committees that meet in person have a budget for those meetings. > > > * The fact that these things happen to take place at Wikimania is, if > > > anything, a slight cost savings: some of the logistics of scheduling > and > > > finding venues can be shared, it allows coordinating press events, &c. > > > > > > > > > Lodewijk, I agree: we should be able to find ways to limit direct > > expenses, > > > and increase sponsorships. We could also increase the number of people > > who > > > benefit from scholarships, or are otherwise able to attend. > > > > > > Focusing on direct expenses from recent Wikimanias: > > > * 2014 budget: $250K revenue + a $150K WMF grant. Actual: $280K > > revenue, > > > needed $320K from WMF to cover direct expenses > > > * 2015 budget: $150K revenue + a $300K WMF grant. Actual: $100K > > revenue, > > > needed $380K from WMF to cover direct expenses > > > * 2016 budget: $290K? revenue + a $250K WMF grant. > > > > > > Itzik, what were the equivalent budgets for Haifa? From the > post-mortem > > on > > > Meta it looks like a $280K budget, and a $100K WMF grant. This included > > > paying for the event coordinator, which is now budgeted separately. > That > > > was for the finest event one could hope for. > > > > > > > > > Lodewijk writes: > > > > 'wikimania direct' is quite expensive, to be honest, and much more > > than I > > > > would have expected. However, it does include catering, which is > always > > > > an expensive chunk... > > > > > > Registration fees should at least cover the marginal cost of the event: > > > catering & materials per person. > > > > > > > > > > looking at these figures, I can agree that it should be possible to > do > > it > > > for > > > > less, I'm less certain though whether the proposed splitting up would > > > > significantly reduce the total costs for everything that is included > > > here. > > > > > > The greater part of money spent on attending Wikimania is the > > out-of-pocket > > > cost of flights and hotels. The cost of this for non-local attendees > is > > > 10-50x the cost of registration. Running many simultaneous local > events > > > has a greater total budget, if you look only at the budgets of the > > > organizers; but a much lower cost per person. There are many more > > options > > > for free venues and low-cost lodging when you're not scrambling to fit > > 1000 > > > people in a small region of a city. And a smaller fraction of money > > spent > > > goes towards jet fuel. > > > > > > For this reason, the same pool of scholarship funds would go farther. > > > > > > Finally, I don't think we should oversell the current Wikimania as a > > > universal connector. I too want there to be a community thing that > > builds > > > interpersonal connections and is accessible to every community member > at > > > low cost. But that thing cannot be a $2,000-net-cost week-long > > > conference. Many people could never attend such an event, even if it > > were > > > free. It is a long time commitment, and is inevitably mono or > bilingual. > > > > > > Sam > > > (who loves the current Wikimanias, and thinks they should continue! but > > > doesn't think they are the pinnacle of what movement-gatherings could > be) > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Sam Klein <sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > That's most helpful, thank you both. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Pharos < > pharosofalexand...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Ellie and Chris, this historical experience should be very > > > helpful > > > >> for future discussions! > > > >> > > > >> Best, > > > >> Pharos > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Chris Schilling < > > > >> cschill...@wikimedia.org> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Hey folks, > > > >> > > > > >> > Ellie has put together a summarized budget including revenue and > > > >> expenses > > > >> > from Wikimania 2014 in London[1] and Wikimania 2015[2], which I've > > > gone > > > >> > ahead and posted to the summary pages of these conferences on > meta. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> > > > > >> > Chris > > > >> > > > > >> > [1] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014> > > > >> > [2] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015> > > > >> > > > > >> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Samuel Klein <meta...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Itzik writes: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be > great > > if > > > >> the > > > >> > > WMF and the local team will share the costs. > > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Budget > > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015/Budget > > > >> > > > Maybe I missed something, but it's strange that such > discussion > > > >> takes > > > >> > > place without a real budget breakdown. > > > >> > > > To summarize 2 huge event to "1$ million USD" does not make > > sense. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Agreed 1million%. It would be important to see a rough cost > > > >> breakdown, & > > > >> > > compare that to the best-budgeted Wikimanias. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Tomasz Ganicz < > > polime...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > 2016-02-10 6:06 GMT+01:00 Samuel Klein <meta...@gmail.com>: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > FUDCons > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Also it is hard to compare Wikimanias with FUDCons as it is > > > >> > > > a) much smaller (usually bo more than 200 attendees) > > > >> > > > b) divided by regions - for example in 2015 there were 3 > FUDCons > > > >> > > > (Argentina, India, Spain) and 2 Flocks (NY and Kraków) - so > > they > > > >> are > > > >> > > > rather like our Iberecop or CEE meetings than the global > > > >> conferences. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Thanks. Similar to regional events perhaps, not Wikimania. > Still > > > >> worth > > > >> > > comparing budgets perhaps, if available. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > But I was wondering about the trend over time: whether extensive > > > >> funding > > > >> > > during the RedHat days made the events less useful, in the years > > > after > > > >> > that > > > >> > > funding was reduced. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > And also Fedora developers have many potential sources of > > external > > > >> > > funding > > > >> > > > - mainly from IT companies which uses free software and want > to > > > >> apply > > > >> > for > > > >> > > > their specific needs and for whom they quite often work. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > True. But attendees to GLAM or education conferences also tend > to > > > >> have > > > >> > > many potential sources of funding - mainly from archives or > > > >> educational > > > >> > or > > > >> > > technical companies who curate knowledge or develop education > > tools. > > > >> And > > > >> > we > > > >> > > have IT industry partners who are similarly willing to support > > > >> > Wikimanias. > > > >> > > Not entirely dissimilar. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > But anyway, Fedora offers scholarships for attendees, see: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Yes, wiki conferences should as well - that part of conference > > > >> funding is > > > >> > > important. Even early Wikimanias with almost no WMF support had > > > >> > > significant scholarship pools. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > S > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > >> , > > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Chris "Jethro" Schilling > > > >> > I JethroBT (WMF) < > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:I_JethroBT_(WMF) > > > >> > > > > >> > Community Organizer, Wikimedia Foundation > > > >> > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > > > 4266 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > > 4266 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
