Whoops, looks like I hit the wrong key combo or something. Just wanted to say I understand Eli's point that we should definitely focus on the real major architecture decision. We can continue the discussion on the mailing list/wiki for test strategies (and should have a more definite understanding after the Q&A meeting).
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Bryant Luk<[email protected]> wrote: > Right we can continue the > > > - Bryant Luk > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Nicholas L Gallardo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Bryant, > >> In any case, if anyone has any thoughts/objections/better ideas, we >> can continue this discussion on the mailing list, and I'll remove the >> bullet from the wiki in a sec. > > I think it's a good discussion to have and would like to keep it on the > wiki. If I understand Eli's point, it's that realistically we won't be able > to cover all three topics in any depth in one meeting. So, let's just break > it up into a series of discussions that can be explored in depth. Further, > I don't think these discussions all have to happen via IRC, so we can hash > it on on the list and in the wiki. > > I'd say let's just start another thread here and open the floor for > discussion of test strategies. > > Cheers, > > -Nick > > > > Nicholas Gallardo > WebSphere - REST & WebServices Development > [email protected] > Phone: 512-286-6258 > Building: 903 / 5G-016 > Bryant Luk <[email protected]> > > > Bryant Luk <[email protected]> > > 06/21/2009 11:07 AM > > Please respond to > [email protected] > > To > [email protected] > cc > > Subject > Re: Architecture Q&A Call > Hi Eli, > > For the testing, I just wanted to say that I would like to add as much > integration testing (with Jetty, Apache Geronimo, WebSphere, and any > other environment) into the project as possible if no one has any > objections. Just to be clear, the test would be like a web > application installed into a web container and then using a client > (HttpClient and hopefully our own) to exercise the behavior of the > application. In a few other projects, there's been some trouble in > this area. We can use some Maven plugins to run those tests and > separate the integration tests into an optional module. > > I believe the value added to the project is pretty good because if we > can make the integration tests fairly neutral and can support multiple > environments, then developers who use our runtime would have some > assurance that the runtime works in their deployment environment. It > could lead to easier adoption later. I don't expect individual > committers to run the tests on every possible environment on every > commit btw. > > The reason why I initially added it to the agenda was because of the > deployment environments bullet in the runtime comparison to make sure > when we architect the integration tests, that we can cover that out. > > In any case, if anyone has any thoughts/objections/better ideas, we > can continue this discussion on the mailing list, and I'll remove the > bullet from the wiki in a sec. > > As far as the goals, I just wanted to make sure that we could > prioritize the agenda and have some frame of reference/perspective > when discussing architecture. I expect that some good architectural > ideas for the runtime could be generated during the discussion for > additional features (i.e. additional tools integration) that may not > be on the top of our agenda. > > - Bryant Luk > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Baram, Eliezer wrote: > >> Hi >> As I sees the wiki page contain agenda for 3 different discussions >> 1) Architecture >> 2) Goals and development phases >> 3) Testing >> >> Since the purpose of this call is "Architecture Q&A" I think we >> should concentrate on the first, Architecture. >> A baseline to the call can be the "Runtime comparison" page that >> Martin created >> (http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WINK/Runtime+comparison >> ). >> >> -- Eli >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Snitkovsky, Martin >> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:14 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Architecture Q&A Call >> >> I have updated "Architecture Meeting And Agenda" wiki >> (http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WINK/Architecture+Meeting+And+Agenda >> ) >> >> Modified bullet [* Third party dependencies] >> New Bullet [* Client API] >> New Bullet [* Configurability] >> >> -- Martin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Elman, Michael >> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:52 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Architecture Q&A Call >> >> I updates the following bullets: >> * Required plug points into runtime >> * Long term goals >> And I also changed formatting a bit, for example I put both the >> integration and unit tests under the Testing bullet. >> >> Michael Elman >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bryant Luk [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:56 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Architecture Q&A Call >> >> I did a quick wiki page for the agenda at: >> >> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WINK/Architecture+Meeting+And+Agenda >> >> >> <http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WINK/Architecture+Meeting+And+Agenda >> >Please >> add anything you wish to discuss. I added some initial goals in a >> somewhat >> logical order (like short term goals first then choose architecture) >> that we >> should discuss them. >> >> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Nicholas L Gallardo <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> >>> Thanks Dims, >>> >>> Since I called for the meeting, I'll take responsibility for >>> getting the >>> info for the meeting posted and for getting summaries documented >>> and posted. >>> >>> >>> -Nick >>> >>> >>> >>> Nicholas Gallardo >>> WebSphere - REST & WebServices Development >>> [email protected] >>> Phone: 512-286-6258 >>> Building: 903 / 5G-016 >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Davanum Srinivas >>> <[email protected]>] >>> Davanum Srinivas <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Davanum Srinivas <[email protected]>* >>> >>> 06/18/2009 02:47 PM >>> Please respond to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> To >>> >>> [email protected] >>> cc >>> >>> >>> Subject >>> >>> Re: Architecture Q&A Call >>> >>> Eli, >>> >>> The goal is to be as open as possible and post as many things as >>> possible >>> ahead of time, anything/everything to >>> facilitate an off-line discussion and ensure broadest participation. >>> >>> * Any documents, please post URL's to wink-dev@ before the meeting >>> (google >>> docs or wiki or JIRA or anywhere else public >>> is ok) >>> * Come up with some sort of agenda items that needs to be discussed >>> (this >>> can be done on the wiki) >>> * Set up a specific start/stop time for the meeting so everyone can >>> plan to >>> be there at least for that duration. >>> * Please post the date/time of the IRC meeting, agenda and pointers >>> to any >>> documents. >>> * Someone should volunteer to keep the meeting on track >>> * Come up with proposals and possible solutions or action items for >>> agenda >>> items >>> * Post all above in logical chunks to wink-dev@ and ask for closure >>> on the >>> mailing list. This helps people who cannot >>> attend the IRC chat and still want to participate >>> * When the chat winds down, please post the log to wink-dev. >>> >>> thanks, >>> dims >>> >>> >>> >>> On 06/18/2009 01:53 PM, Baram, Eliezer wrote: >>>> Dim, >>>> I'm new to IRC meeting and I try to figure out the right format >>>> that will >>> make this meeting work. >>>> I would call the meeting successful if valid questions will be >>>> raised >>> during the conference and a discussion will be made. >>>> >>>> How do you recommend to run the IRC meeting ? >>>> >>>> If we were running the meeting In a conference call with an >>>> ability to >>> share documents (by Google document for instance, or sent earlier >>> by mail) I >>> would format this meeting in a way where the contributors of the >>> submissions >>> would present their submission. These presentations would hopefully >>> raise >>> questions, and a discussion will be created. What can be an IRC >>> alternative >>> to this in order to trigger such discussion? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Eli >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[email protected] >>>> <[email protected]>] >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:57 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Architecture Q&A Call >>>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> Yes, please use IRC and post the transcript to the mailing list. >>>> >>>> No, you cannot make decisions on the IRC chat, you need to post >>>> what ever >>> you are proposing on the mailing list and VOTE >>>> on it (72 hours etc as usual) >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> dims >>>> >>>> On 06/18/2009 10:45 AM, Nicholas L Gallardo wrote: >>>>> Jason, you (and anyone else for that matter) are absolutely >>>>> invited, >>> should >>>>> have made that point clear. I mentioned it on the list for >>>>> exactly that >>>>> reason though. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that calls are not typical for the Apache projects I've >>>>> seen >>>>> either. But, it was proposed as a means to try to work through the >>> issues >>>>> quickly and to get everyone acquainted. Most discussion will >>>>> obviously >>>>> happen on the mailing lists. But, we need to come to a decision >>>>> quickly >>> on >>>>> the base code as that's holding up any other work. If the >>>>> community >>> would >>>>> rather handle it via IRC then we can do that. If done on IRC, do >>>>> you >>> just >>>>> copy/paste the transcript somewhere for people to comment on later? >>>>> >>>>> Mentors, any suggestions here for how to have synchronous work >>>>> sessions >>> to >>>>> get through discussions quickly? >>>>> >>>>> -Nick >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nicholas Gallardo >>>>> WebSphere - REST& WebServices Development >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Phone: 512-286-6258 >>>>> Building: 903 / 5G-016 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Dillon >>>>> <[email protected] >>>>> om> >>> To >>>>> Sent by: Jason [email protected] >>>>> Dillon >>> cc >>>>> <jason.dil...@gma >>>>> il.com> >>> Subject >>>>> Re: Architecture Q&A Call >>>>> >>>>> 06/18/2009 09:11 >>>>> AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please respond to >>>>> wink-...@incubato >>>>> r.apache.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think I can make that, if I'm invited of course. >>>>> >>>>> Though along those lines, typically "calls" aren't really used that >>>>> much by the Apache community... IRC at times has even been a >>>>> stretch, >>>>> though I think many communities use it for regular group >>>>> communications. It may be construed as a bad sign if the first >>>>> major >>>>> discussion is effectively offline. Perhaps if a transcript of the >>>>> call was recorded somewhere, on this list, it might fly. Otherwise >>>>> it may be better from a community perspective to hold this meeting >>>>> over IRC on freenode.net. But I'm unsure, we'll let the mentors >>>>> chime >>>>> in more on this. >>>>> >>>>> I do think there needs to be more discussion on the merits of both >>>>> codebases before a descison is made. >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps... >>>>> >>>>> --jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2009, at 8:57 PM, Nicholas L Gallardo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it would be useful to have a call next week for some Q&A >>>>>> regarding >>>>>> the two runtimes and architectures. We can have the relevant >>>>>> people >>>>>> give >>>>>> summaries of the work that's been contributed and then answer >>>>>> questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Given the geographic dispersion, getting a time nailed down will >>>>>> be >>>>>> tough. >>>>>> How does 8:00AM CST on Tuesday the 23rd work for everyone? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Nick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Nicholas Gallardo >>>>>> WebSphere - REST& WebServices Development >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Phone: 512-286-6258 >>>>>> Building: 903 / 5G-016 >>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> - Bryant Luk > > > -- - Bryant Luk
