Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps


But a cahing server if you can't afford the bandwidth.
Seriously, your model, the old model, is about dead and buried.

Cache serves are great. When I used to use one it saved me about 25% on my bandwidth costs. We tried to do this with the MT routers, but they actually seemed to slow things down. I know that they (and Butch) claimed it was really faster. However, the look and feel was noticably slower, and perception sometimes trumps reality. I've been thinking of putting some in again.


How much does it cost to watch a movie across the net using your system?

No idea. But it's an up and coming reality. I see it as having an even bigger impact on the network than Napster did. And this time, there's cool new technology anyone's going to be able to move to to help deal with the usage issues. AND bandwidth costs don't seem to be sliding down much, if at all, these days. The last 12 to 18 months seem to have stablized things, at least around here.



  Just be glad you aren't a  competitor of mine.

Wrong answer, It should be the other way around. Because we don't bit charge, we manage our network to accomadate our users needs. I would imagine that if you were here telling your subs that they had to pay more, they would be coming this way.

Yeppers. They can and they will. But not all of them. Only the bandwidth hogs.

Look at it like this, choke a customer to 512k instead of 2000k. Is that customer going to do any less on the network? Nope. He's gonna do what he wanted to do all alone. It'll just take him longer.

I've got almost 400 broadband users on my network. At 512k that means I'd need 200ish mbps to take care of them if they all used it all the time. Instead, we're actually averaging about 1.5 in, .5 out on the main site. .8 in and .2 out here in Odessa. So my 400 broadband users are averaging 2.5 megs in and 1 out. That's a LOT better than even the 10 megs you'll need if my top ten users move to your service.....

AND when selling speed, you are in direct competion with the companies that own the bulk of the network. Who wants to try to compete agains the telco or the cable co? Yikes.

Just for kicks, lets look at the last 7 days here on my network:
Odessa:
     Max In:  3.18 Mb  Average In:  1.22 Mb  Current In:  1.02 Mb
     Max Out:  737.05 Kb  Average Out:  275.54 Kb  Current Out:  172.59 Kb


Ephrata:
     Max In:  6.53 Mb  Average In:  1.69 Mb  Current In:  2.04 Mb
     Max Out:  2.35 Mb  Average Out:  479.40 Kb  Current Out:  823.21 Kb


So, even at this rate, I'm still on track for a max usage of 400 users vs. your 20 users at 512k.

AND I don't HAVE to try to provide that 512k for all of my users. Sure they expect that today, heck, many get mad when they don't see the 2000k they usually do. I can honestly tell them that I'm not selling speed. I'm selling capacity. For me, adding speed is fairly cheap. Adding capacity costs too much.


I'm not scared of my subs usage, I've been building out specifically for their future high usage needs.

You should be scared of this. At some point you'll have to put a limit on them. Ever figured out how many 128k users it takes to tie up a $500 per month t-1??? At $30 to $40 per month the numbers just don't work.

Now, don't go telling me about your amazing $20 per mbps bandwith deal. Cause we BOTH know that it's not really costing you that. There are also transport fees etc. that have to be figured in to get an apples to apples comparison. Sure I pay $200 per meg of usage here in Odessa. But I also pay $800 per month for the circuit that'll carry those megs!


Bottom line, you need to get over the hump of not having enough subs to pay for the extra bandwidth where you can get a much better per meg rate.

Get more subs!

Grin.  working on it!


George


Right now, we have 9 users over 10 gigs per month.
That means that 5% of my customers are more than, much more than, 5% of my bw costs. The average person is using less than 2 gigs.

Worst of all, the OTHER customers on the towers that the highest of the high end users are calling about bad service.

Soo000, how would you like to be a competitor here, knowing that I'm gonna give you the highest of the bw hogs? What are YOU gonna do to stay in business?

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] bits per mbps


Guess it cmes down to what you are selling and what does it cost you to do business.

First f, you are selling a simle internet conection for a casual user. If you want you can squeeze them fr every little "bit".

I wonder why you have to charge them more, if you are being billed at the 95%

My understanding is the 95 percentile is a snap shot at peak time and the top 5% lobbed of to come up with your usage. What this means to me is that on wed evening at 8PM when you hit 9.543megs a second which is your highest usage, could be sunday morning or friday evening for that matter, they call that the peak and lob off 5% and bill you there.

So on monday morning when you are going 4.5 or 2.2MBPS or sat evening when you hit 5 or 6 megs, there is no difference in cost to you. t's all under the peak.

So why bother unless your true goal is to figure out how hard you can squeeze you sub. Which is not right or wrong, just your business not any ones elses.

I have a sub that uploads a 250 meg file twice a day to my server and does this every day.
If he was your sub how much would you charge them?

George


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
Hi All,

OK, so now that we know who our heavy users are I have to come up with a couple of things.

First, I have to figure out how many kbps a gig of download would be. Specifically, I've got a couple of customers doing 50 gigs per month. How many kbps does it take to generate that?

We pay for our internet based on kbps.

Next, what do we do for an overage fee? Currently it's set as $5 for the first gig, $10 for the second, $20 for the third etc. At 25 gigs the customer has a $5,000,000 bill. Sure that'll run off the abusers, but I'd rather find a more reasonable way to bill them.

We have a business customer that legitimately uses 40 to 50 gig per month. We just moved them from $75 to $350 per month (matched the t-1 price they pay in another town). They don't feel abused and I feel more comfortable about their usage. We bumped them up to 60 gigs included.

I have another customer that's at 10 gigs now (our included limit is 4). We talked about an appropriate rate of increase. Under our standard levels, they'd more than double their bill. If we hit them with a couple of hundred in billing they'd go elsewhere. We would, however, like to dig a little bit deeper into their back pocket. I talked with them a bit about our need to recover costs based on their usage etc.

They said if we hit $100 to $125 they'd not have a problem with that.

On our end we have two problems. One, we pay for internet based on usage. The more they use the more we pay. Our costs were up 15% last month. The other, maybe worse issue, is that we have to increase the capacity to towers that have heavy users on them. Possibly to the point of a dedicated ap to cover just a customer or three. Now we're really talking bucks and spectrum issues etc.

My original idea was that if a person went over by a gig or two we'd ding them a few dollars as a "shot across the bow" kind of thing. Around 50 of our 400 users are going over the new 4 gig level though. Some will fix that by getting postini and dropping the spam. Some will fix that by getting the kids to turn off the file sharing programs. And some are legitimately using that much data.

In the end, we don't want to run off people if we can help it. Those at the 30 to 50 gig level will probably leave us for other services, but that's gonna be ok. They mess things up for everyone around them. Better that my competitors have customers like that than we do. For all of the rest, we need to recover our costs, and hopefully make a little extra money on them.

Soooo, my new idea is, gigs 5 through 10 would be at $5 per month. Gigs 10 through 20 at $10 per gig. Over 20, call for a price and we'll work something out that works for all of us. We really need it to naturally hit around $350 at the 50 gig level to match what we did with the first big customer.

Thougths????

Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





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