Mac, Mac, I was reminded that you had a question at the end...here is my answer, with the real meat, the blunt talk, towards the end.
The AUs are not actually the same as the CPE. I understand there are some hardware differences. That said, the real reason AUs cost more than CPE has nothing to do with actual box costs on a one-to-one basis. It is more of a total-margin-across-a-network type economic equation. All vendors have some form of margin loss leader and in this business that happens on the CPE end. We've all (BWA vendors) done the equation that says for every X CPE, 1 access unit is purchased. In understanding that ratio, and how it changes over the life of the market and product line, we are all hopefully able to plan and balance gross margin across a product family. All professional (which is to say, FCC-certified and/or other such legal and/or rated attributes like UL listing, ISO-certified, etc.) price this way -- our per unit pricing on infrastructure is higher than per unit of CPE. Also, over time as standards take hold (like they did in wireless LAN) in the outside, metroscale wireless world, CPE becomes more and more commoditized. Production of standardized commodity elements of a solution then migrate to the commodity builders, with the more complex and higher MTBF infrastructure pieces still built by the experts, the specialty suppliers. The Alvarion's of the world are not commodity builders. We are among the innovators and inventors, the guys that pour tens and even hundreds of millions into R&D, then hope to see return on that investment mostly by selling infrastructure as the market fully matures. I'm not sure that's the answer you want, but it's accurate. If your question is why does ours cost more than others, that's another question, but certainly investment, quality and durability of components, ISO-rated manufacturing processes, etc. contribute. But even that said, few things in this world are priced based solely on the cost of the parts and the manufacturing and handling. That's part of it, but everyone tries to price in the end based on value offered. Something that is well-priced will be accepted by many, rejected by some. Something poorly priced will be accepted by all, which means money is likely being left on the table, or rejected by all, which means the maker is too proud of their goods or have not otherwise convinced the market of the value. From a WISP standpoint, I think Alvarion got damned close to being too proud and certainly did not do the best job of convincing WISPs of the value of products like BreezeACCESS VL. That's why I asked to be allowed to personally re-focus on the WISP space and from that comes the AlvarionCOMNET program. With that, I believe we are right closer to the "being accepted by all" end of the spectrum and I know some internally here think maybe I've gone too far. It's my gamble and my ass on the line and I'm thankful for the responsibility and appreciative my boss invested his confidence. By the way, the AUS access unit model, which was released on the market last month, is only $2,595 list... Regards, Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:41 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Patrick, You are a better man than I am - no doubt! You have answered seven thousand questions, retorted seven thousand fallacies and straightened out another seven thousand myths. I have been a consultant for Trango for the last two years and I do know every in and every out of Trango gear. I can tell you what it will do and what it will not do, what to expect and what not to look for by "just looking" at your coverage area. It doesn't matter if it's 900 MHz, 5.x or 2.4GHz - - I can tell you some stuff. I have built Muni networks with Trango and I have built my personal network with Trango and a menagerie of different gear. I can also tell you and the rest of the world about Alvarion. I bought another WISP in a distant town and when I bought them out they were a 100% Alvarion network. That was my first experience with Alvarion. I will tell you that they had the 3mbps gear up, they had a 99% business network and that they had 0% LOS to any client. I never bothered to check out their clients or how they were installed, but jumped at the opportunity to buy them out at a great price. When I did get the deal done I soon realized the gear they were running far exceeded what I had in store. I did have to place 900MHz gear to replace the Alvarion 3mbps FHSS to establish and maintain those connections. These folks didn't know sheet from shinola, but they had a nice WISP and all they could say was "Alvarion." They never bothered to further themselves education wise, but called on Trango to buy more gear when they had another client. When I tell you they couldn't spell PC - - they didn't have a clue. All this said - - - why do you feel you must guard against and protect Alvarion from every opposing opinion? I don't have to tell you that there are those that can be starving from thirst, led to water and still die from thirst. The ComNet program is absolutely a great program that has enabled (and will enable) many WISP to upgrade to a carrier class program. I can't speak for anyone else, but I (as an old time Trango hand) appreciate all the work that I know you personally put into this program. You are a good man who cares about the folks who make this wireless industry exist. All right - - one question for myself - - - - dang, why are the AP's so stinking expensive? It is only a software difference and if the AP's weren't as costly - - - I believe that Alvarion would run off with the market. Why is it that this type gear has to be so substantially higher in cost? Mac Dearman -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived ...okay, I went off the deep end there. It was wrong of me to insult the competition because I'm allowing myself to be baited. Sorry folks. Sorry Trango. Ghrr. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 1:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Almost as fun as predicting what product or policy Trango will discontinue or otherwise dramatically change next! Patrick -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:41 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Give the VL dual polarity via software control and you might have something worth taking note about. Throw in dual band ability and now you're on the right track. As it sits now Alvarion is requiring you to visit every site you have a VL radio and rotate it 90* in the event you need to do so. Sounds like fun! Best, Brad -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Remember VLs will be shipping with support for optional manual horizontal Pol mounting, sometime early 2007 (Jan?). Not going to be a problem getting 6 VLs on a tower anymore, before even considering the 10Mhz channel option. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gino A. Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:50 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived > Oh Patrick, you couldn't resist .... Motorola is extremely conservative on > the spec sheet. "4.21 Mbps" Net typical" where you get that? I got > Advantage customers at 10 miles getting full 14 Mbps ...It may not be the > most effective modulation, but is a very good compromise between > performance > and interference rejection. And don't negate the fact that GPS is a must > have tool for Cell deployment, It saves you spectrum, tower space and I > can > play nice with other carriers using Canopy... Why you think all cell > carriers rely on GPS ? > > Let me see a VL 6 60 deg Sector using only 60 Mhz of channels > > Let me see 3 VL Carriers sharing 1 tower > > > > Gino A. Villarini > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Patrick Leary > Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:15 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived > > Jon, > > With a proper channel plan that is just not the case, not to mention > things like ATPC. Things like WiMAX use it because there you are dealing > with small frequency allocations where every last ounce of efficiency > needs to be found. In UL that is not the case since there is so much > more spectrum to work with. > > Please don't try to tell me Canopy's use of GPS is good example of UL > efficiency. We both know Canopy's use of GPS is more the reality of the > fact that Canopy is always talking and has no ATPC so the GPS is used to > keep it from stepping on itself. > > And speaking about "efficiency," even the Canopy Advantage is a very > inefficient modulation relative to something like VL. Advantage, but > Motorola's own spec sheet, delivers 4.25mbps net typical, 14mbps max (to > 1 mile) in a 20MHz channel. VL does over 30mbps net max with typical > over the air in an LOS environment being something like 80% of that well > over 1 mile. > > In any event, there exist too many examples to count of scaled VL > networks with co-located cells say you are incorrect in your assertion > that VL can't be built in a cellular topology. It is a silly thing to > assert in fact. > > Patrick Leary > AVP WISP Markets > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > Vonage: 650.641.1243 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jon Langeler > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived > > With VL, you still run into the issue of self interference in a cellular > > deployment(many tower sites in a region). The only products I'm aware of > > that cooperate properly in a cellular deployment are minimally GPS > capable, and the advanced products that support things like hand-off or > N:1 deployment go beyond that with 2-way base station to base station > communication. Technologies such as wimax, 3G, fiber networks, etc. all > use GPS to to improve efficiency and operation. IMO VL may still be a > good product to deploy, but just not in a cellular or "colocated" > deployment. > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Tech. > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> Charles, >> >> Although your comment is true, and you left out on the fly flexibilty, > >> what people want is not always the best value, at the end of the day >> with all things considered. >> The value of consistent availability and right out of the box >> deployment is PRICELIST! This doesn't only save cost of installer >> labor, but also management labor in purchasing and aquisition. >> >> I'll share something from my experience that I find is Ironic as heck. > >> I always looked at Alvarion as the high end market gear, but its being > >> a stronger residential play. I recently have done a lot with >> War/StarV3 for high end business, mostly Point to Point links, because > >> I can get good speed, flexibilty to reach the neighboring building, >> and great testing tools with things like Iperf BUILT-IN able to test >> Ethernet connections as well as RF conclusively link by link, as hops >> increase as the backbone mesh grows. Alvarion is also a great product > >> for high end business, which I'm also using in some cases, but I have >> a higher cost to accomplish that, since StarOS has dual radio slots. >> Where Alvarion has now shown undisputable advantage based on its new >> low price, is in its residential application. The difference between >> $185 and $285, is almost nothing compared to my time savings in >> operations. The ease of opening the box and installing a VL is >> unmatched. What VL does for me, is that it gives me confidence in >> using subcontractors to isntall. Because I know they'll take the time >> to make sure they get the best signal. With my other gear, its such a > >> pain to get best signal, I was afraid to use contractors and only do >> installs with employees by the hour, so their income did not deter >> them from doing their best job. I gladly pay $100 more for a complete >> ready to go product. The only thing that keeps me from going 100% >> Alvarion for residential is that, I already have 100 APs installed of >> another manufacturer, and I need to focus on revenue not re-build >> out. Its not just the cost to replace the AP, its the cost to replace > >> the consumers without downtime, all at once, when there is little free > >> spectrum left to just install a new AP. To install a new AP, and >> existing AP must be removed first, in many cases. From a >> performance/reliabilty point of view, there is nothing wrong with the >> gear I previously preferred to use, but from an operations and >> installation point of view, my operations can scale much easier using >> the VL. Low marging residential is where that matters most. Its >> important to be able to have consistent install time and meet >> schedules. The other day I ran out of pigtail. The other day I ran >> out of thin thread stand offs. The other day I ran out of J-Arms. The >> other day I ran out of antennas that came with mounts that support >> 2-3/8" pole. Everyday there is a barrier that delays operations. Sure > >> an easy barrier to fix, but still a delay. Instead of focussing on >> sales, I'm focusing on making sure I have enough Gold standoffs in >> stock (5 cent parts). There is something to be said for what Alvarion > >> has offered through the Commnet program, probably one of the strongest > >> value propositions offered to date. Its going to really make the >> competition work. Just my 2 cents. >> >> The competitions, just better hope that Alvarion doesn't offer an AP >> trade-up program, to help conversion. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > ************************************************************************ > ************ > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & > computer viruses(190). > ************************************************************************ > ************ > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************ > ************ > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & > 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