Brad, Jon, Patrick..... I really think all of you are off the path here....

As Patrick knows we ARE a scaled canopy operator. I designed this baby from
the ground up, everything from the L3 switches, Battery backup, 3rd party
antennas, conversions, everything.

We are currently over 1,200 Canopy CPE in the field and doing over 100
installs per month.

Does Canopy have it's issues, your DAMN right. But it works, yes it does
require a high level of knowledge to scale a canopy network, but what system
doesn't? anyone can throw together a 50 sub network, but 500 or 5000
separates the men from the boys.

Marlon originally said he was thinking about deploying VL for business
customers. Well guess what..... we are too. And I think they are for similar
reasons. The original network I owned was based on InvisiMax Access Points
on Soekris SBC's with Senao wifi cards and CB3's as the CPE radios. Once I
got it working it ran very well, but when I sold out the new owners needed
more so I chose Canopy. Well now we want to deploy a Premium business
service, lets say 3Mbps of data with 6 Voice Lines. I KNOW canopy in its
current state will not do that with any scalability, so I turned to Patrick
and PCS Technologies. I think we all know that VL wont hit a sub 5 miles out
in the MN forest, only 900 or lower can do that, I also don't expect 900 to
push 30Mbps of data. Everything has its trade offs. 

As far as the GPS debate, I DO think GPS is a good thing, it sure can't
hurt. Did Alvarion choose to implement it, no, do I have a problem with it,
no. Canopy has it for channel reuse, and because it needs it, period no more
arguing, please. BA 900 and 2.4 has it because to scale it needs it. After
all the only thing that can kill canopy IS canopy.

I probably should write more, but I have to work early (Towers crews coming
to put up another Dragon Wave). I realize I may not have done anything to
help, hopefully I have not mad an ass of myself, but I am really getting
tired of the Canopy Vs Alvarion Vs Trango bull crap.

Run what you feel is the best, and if you can't live with the fact that
others disagree, keep it to yourself. Marlon is a (I feel) intelligent
enough guy to make his own decisions, he has been doing this a long time, He
is still around, so he must have either got real lucky, figured it out, or
have the brains in the first place.

Maybe some day well all be at a conference and can rent a boxing ring and
work this out but until then, please leave it alone, my delete key with
thank you.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

Not sure how your Alvarion 900 was configured, but our you are aware
that our 900 and 2.4 have both supported GPS sync since day one right
Eight years before Canopy even launched)?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

Let's use 900MHz as an example. We deployed Alvarion 900 on multiple 
sites for over a year and it was a less than enjoyable experience. We 
started by transitioning one site from Alvarion 900 to Canopy 900 and 
things started working much better.
I may use licensed operations as an example only because I've had the 
experience of being on both sides of the fence. Also we buy GPS sync 
units as low as $300 new from a 3rd party vendor, as do many canopy 
operators.
As for the excess bandwidth availability in the UL bands, that's 
definately not the case here...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.

Patrick Leary wrote:

>Jon,
>
>When discussing GPS, you continue to offer examples from the licensed
>world, which is about as relevant as trying to do an apples to apples
>comparisons of mobile licensed cellular service plans with UL fixed
>wireless. As I have said before (last week), licensed uses GPS due to
>the necessity of having to re-use a small amount of channel over and
>over again, cell after cell. That's not the case in the UL world,
except
>perhaps for Canopy whose bandwidth availability is so low relative to
>the channel. 
>
>Jon, you, me, the fence post and everyone else knows why Canopy --
alone
>in the entire UL 5GHz world -- requires GPS to scale, it's to keep from
>stepping all over itself. It is not even a debatable point. The
>recommendation is right there in Canopy white papers -- let me
>paraphrase: "Deploying Canopy? What to scale? Buy this $1,500 cluster
>management module for each cell! (P.S. Don't forget the $125 power
>supply.)"
>
>Seriously, saying Canopy's GPS (something you have to pay extra for
>even) is a value-added feature is like saying my car is special because
>it has tires. I have to hand it to Motorola though, they have convinced
>you that the one thing no other brand needs in UL, is something you
have
>the privilege of paying extra for just to get your brand to work well
in
>even modest scale in the first place.
> 
>Patrick Leary
>AVP WISP Markets
>Alvarion, Inc.
>o: 650.314.2628
>c: 760.580.0080
>Vonage: 650.641.1243
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Jon Langeler
>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:05 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived
>
>I didn't make any 'claims' and as for 1,000 cpe, that's possible with 
>wifi(although I'd hate to be one of the end-users). Some of the 
>differences is how happy the customers are(reliability seems to play
key
>
>here), whether they're business or res., how easy it is to have lower 
>cost employees deploy the network(as opposed to me and other
"qualified"
>
>or "certified" engineers that charge $10K's more/yr), and how tasked
the
>
>support and management department is, etc. Things that factor into 
>operating a real world wisp. My kind of business is one I can leave for

>a vacation or another venture while having confidence the thing is
going
>
>to continue growing while I'm gone.
>As for GPS sync. Maybe the cellular guys were wrong the whole time,
must
>
>be another Moto consipiracy and maybe mention that to everyone that 
>developed 802.16d/e(WIMAX) including your own Alvarion engineers! ;) No

>GPS is not required, but it sure makes a lot of sense and is arguably 
>'proper' for a multi cell deployment. I predict this is one of those 
>things that the novice wisp will someday either understand, moved on 
>beyond wireless last mile, or stuck it out and trained their support 
>dept. on how to 'put out fires' for as long as possible. Of course all 
>of this is my opinion but I have to go now...hopfully was enough for 
>everyone to chew on ;)
>
>Jon Langeler
>Michwave Tech.
>
>Brad Larson wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Jon, LOL. Our engineers don't watch these threads and they probably
>>never will and I wouldn't want them to. It's funny that this thread
was
>>started by a very happy Alvarion customer whom just broke the 1,000
cpe
>>threshold with VL and he's doing the very things that aren't supposed
>>    
>>
>to
>  
>
>>be possible according to some posting on this topic!! And the funny
>>    
>>
>part
>  
>
>>of it is, VL displaced one of the products mentioned...performance
went
>>up, truck rolls went down, and he sleeps better at night!! This thread
>>reminds me of a competitor slinging mud 2 years ago saying we couldn't
>>build a 3 tower network in 5 square miles to connect 2,400
>>buildings...........Blah blah sync sync... LOL. We not only built that
>>network but it's a prime example of how if you "KNOW WHAT YOU"RE
DOING"
>>and are "TRAINED AND CERTIFIED" the product works like a charm. 
>>
>>And if a wisp is building a scaling voip/data network canopy is not
>>    
>>
>such
>  
>
>>a great solution so the hassle is in the details. Brad
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>


-- 
Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.

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