Fuel cells, too. http://www.fuelcellmarkets.com/products_and_services/3,1,599,17,7561.html
Christopher Erickson wrote: > The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. > > And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could > increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple > of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI > interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny. > > Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid > connection. > > Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your > telecom power design. > > -Christopher Erickson > Network Design Engineer > 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 > Anchorage, AK 99508 > N61?11.710' W149?46.723' > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> In general, sounds like good advice. >> >> To clarify our intent, in posting..... >> >> >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to.... >> >> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. >> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered >> generator, >> in longer lasting Emergencies. >> (We have a couple hot spare generators) >> >> Why are we changing our view point? >> >> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are >> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in >> price (aka >> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the >> batteries, based on watt load at the sites. >> >> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the >> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and >> harder to get >> to multiple locations at once with generators. >> Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when >> towards the end >> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the >> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. >> >> 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) >> >> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase >> uptime, and not >> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of >> course still >> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be >> more hassle >> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me >> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when >> needed. >> >> We are already connected to building generators, where we were >> allowed to, >> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. >> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property >> management would >> have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned >> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. >> >> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical >> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would >> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. >> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking >> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the >> tank after use? >> >> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want >> to mount on >> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. >> >> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features >> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features >> to meet the >> requirements of code and property managers. >> >> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >> >> >> >>> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will >>> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. >>> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency >>> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict >>> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and >>> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, >>> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power >>> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of >>> their tenants for phone systems, etc. >>> >>> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and >>> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery >>> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the >>> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. >>> >>> >>> Patrick Shoemaker >>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>> [email protected] >>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>> >>>> While on the topic of generators..... >>>> >>>> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial >>>> Multi-tenant buildings. >>>> >>>> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately >>>> >> not allowed >> >>>> on >>>> roofs, for fire safety reasons. >>>> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain >>>> generators. >>>> >>>> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get >>>> installed >>>> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof? >>>> >>>> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get >>>> re-fueled easilly? >>>> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new >>>> tanks >>>> swapped (like a gas grill).? >>>> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level? >>>> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, >>>> >> and run AC >> >>>> wire up to the roof level? >>>> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside >>>> parking >>>> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage? >>>> >>>> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to >>>> where >>>> the tanks can be placed? >>>> >>>> I'm sure some of this is in local building code. And I can >>>> >> probably best >> >>>> guess some of the answers for above. >>>> >>>> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the >>>> lowest >>>> dollar cost.? >>>> >>>> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very >>>> >> affordable. >> >>>> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses. >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jerry Richardson" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning >>>>> >> toward a UPS. >> >>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost >>>>> >> less and be >> >>>>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @ >>>>> 24VDC. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>> >>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can >>>>> >> overheat and >> >>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines, >>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, >>>>> >> diesel can be >> >>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing >>>>> conditions. >>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 >>>>> >> phase. (1955 >> >>>>> Model) >>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>> >> Everything is >> >>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the >>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a >>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. >>>>> >>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not >>>>> starting and get it fixed. >>>>> >>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup >>>>>> >> but it does >> >>>>>> not start reliably. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to >>>>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >> >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------------- >> >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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