The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny.
Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid connection. Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your telecom power design. -Christopher Erickson Network Design Engineer 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 Anchorage, AK 99508 N61?11.710' W149?46.723' > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > > Patrick, > > In general, sounds like good advice. > > To clarify our intent, in posting..... > > >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to.... > > 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. > 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered > generator, > in longer lasting Emergencies. > (We have a couple hot spare generators) > > Why are we changing our view point? > > 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are > still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in > price (aka > Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the > batteries, based on watt load at the sites. > > 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the > challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and > harder to get > to multiple locations at once with generators. > Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when > towards the end > of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the > time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. > > 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) > > We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase > uptime, and not > necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of > course still > keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be > more hassle > than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me > quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when > needed. > > We are already connected to building generators, where we were > allowed to, > so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. > I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property > management would > have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned > about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. > > I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical > connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would > require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. > There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking > maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the > tank after use? > > I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want > to mount on > ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. > > Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features > for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features > to meet the > requirements of code and property managers. > > For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > > > Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will > > be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. > > However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency > > power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict > > requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and > > fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, > > you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power > > from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of > > their tenants for phone systems, etc. > > > > Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and > > place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery > > capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the > > rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. > > > > > > Patrick Shoemaker > > Vector Data Systems LLC > > [email protected] > > office: (301) 358-1690 x36 > > http://www.vectordatasystems.com > > > > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> While on the topic of generators..... > >> > >> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial > >> Multi-tenant buildings. > >> > >> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately > not allowed > >> on > >> roofs, for fire safety reasons. > >> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain > >> generators. > >> > >> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get > >> installed > >> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof? > >> > >> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get > >> re-fueled easilly? > >> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new > >> tanks > >> swapped (like a gas grill).? > >> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level? > >> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, > and run AC > >> wire up to the roof level? > >> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside > >> parking > >> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage? > >> > >> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to > >> where > >> the tanks can be placed? > >> > >> I'm sure some of this is in local building code. And I can > probably best > >> guess some of the answers for above. > >> > >> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the > >> lowest > >> dollar cost.? > >> > >> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very > affordable. > >> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses. > >> > >> Tom DeReggi > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Jerry Richardson" <[email protected]> > >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >> > >> > >>> Thank you, > >>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning > toward a UPS. > >>> > >>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost > less and be > >>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @ > >>> 24VDC. > >>> > >>> Thanks again > >>> Jerry > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On > >>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM > >>> To: WISPA General List > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >>> > >>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. > >>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can > overheat and > >>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines, > >>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, > diesel can be > >>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing > >>> conditions. > >>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 > phase. (1955 > >>> Model) > >>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. > Everything is > >>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the > >>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a > >>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. > >>> > >>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not > >>> starting and get it fixed. > >>> > >>> Jerry Richardson wrote: > >>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup > but it does > >>>> not start reliably. > >>>> > >>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to > >>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> __________________________________ > >>>> Jerry Richardson > >>>> airCloud Communications > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------- > >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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