http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
The soviets made portable radioactive generators to power lighthouses and beacons; 87 years and you've only used half your fuel. On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 11:19:31AM -0700, Chuck Profito wrote: > Let's not forget small nuclear power as sold in 1951! ... http://xrl.in/2u36 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Curtis Maurand > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:39 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > > Fuel cells, too. > > http://www.fuelcellmarkets.com/products_and_services/3,1,599,17,7561.html > > > > Christopher Erickson wrote: > > The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service. > > > > And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller > could > > increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple > > of weeks. And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either. And their PMI > > interval is a godsend too. And cheaper than a genny. > > > > Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid > > connection. > > > > Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your > > telecom power design. > > > > -Christopher Erickson > > Network Design Engineer > > 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529 > > Anchorage, AK 99508 > > N61?11.710' W149?46.723' > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on > >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >> > >> > >> Patrick, > >> > >> In general, sounds like good advice. > >> > >> To clarify our intent, in posting..... > >> > >> >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to.... > >> > >> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites. > >> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered > >> generator, > >> in longer lasting Emergencies. > >> (We have a couple hot spare generators) > >> > >> Why are we changing our view point? > >> > >> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are > >> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in > >> price (aka > >> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the > >> batteries, based on watt load at the sites. > >> > >> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the > >> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and > >> harder to get > >> to multiple locations at once with generators. > >> Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when > >> towards the end > >> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the > >> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes. > >> > >> 3) Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-) > >> > >> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase > >> uptime, and not > >> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of > >> course still > >> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be > >> more hassle > >> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me > >> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when > >> needed. > >> > >> We are already connected to building generators, where we were > >> allowed to, > >> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own. > >> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property > >> management would > >> have for this type stuff. For example, whether they would be concerned > >> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured. > >> > >> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical > >> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would > >> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20. > >> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking > >> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the > >> tank after use? > >> > >> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want > >> to mount on > >> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up. > >> > >> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features > >> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features > >> to meet the > >> requirements of code and property managers. > >> > >> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries. > >> > >> Tom DeReggi > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com> > >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >> > >> > >> > >>> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will > >>> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. > >>> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency > >>> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict > >>> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and > >>> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, > >>> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power > >>> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of > >>> their tenants for phone systems, etc. > >>> > >>> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and > >>> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery > >>> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the > >>> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries. > >>> > >>> > >>> Patrick Shoemaker > >>> Vector Data Systems LLC > >>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com > >>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 > >>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com > >>> > >>> > >>> Tom DeReggi wrote: > >>> > >>>> While on the topic of generators..... > >>>> > >>>> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial > >>>> Multi-tenant buildings. > >>>> > >>>> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately > >>>> > >> not allowed > >> > >>>> on > >>>> roofs, for fire safety reasons. > >>>> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain > >>>> generators. > >>>> > >>>> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get > >>>> installed > >>>> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof? > >>>> > >>>> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get > >>>> re-fueled easilly? > >>>> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new > >>>> tanks > >>>> swapped (like a gas grill).? > >>>> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level? > >>>> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, > >>>> > >> and run AC > >> > >>>> wire up to the roof level? > >>>> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside > >>>> parking > >>>> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage? > >>>> > >>>> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to > >>>> where > >>>> the tanks can be placed? > >>>> > >>>> I'm sure some of this is in local building code. And I can > >>>> > >> probably best > >> > >>>> guess some of the answers for above. > >>>> > >>>> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the > >>>> lowest > >>>> dollar cost.? > >>>> > >>>> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very > >>>> > >> affordable. > >> > >>>> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses. > >>>> > >>>> Tom DeReggi > >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Jerry Richardson" <jrichard...@aircloud.com> > >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning > >>>>> > >> toward a UPS. > >> > >>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost > >>>>> > >> less and be > >> > >>>>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @ > >>>>> 24VDC. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks again > >>>>> Jerry > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org > >>>>> > >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> > >>>>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM > >>>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > >>>>> > >>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. > >>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can > >>>>> > >> overheat and > >> > >>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines, > >>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, > >>>>> > >> diesel can be > >> > >>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing > >>>>> conditions. > >>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 > >>>>> > >> phase. (1955 > >> > >>>>> Model) > >>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. > >>>>> > >> Everything is > >> > >>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the > >>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a > >>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended. > >>>>> > >>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not > >>>>> starting and get it fixed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup > >>>>>> > >> but it does > >> > >>>>>> not start reliably. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to > >>>>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> __________________________________ > >>>>>> Jerry Richardson > >>>>>> airCloud Communications > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- > >> > >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- > >> > >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -------------- > >> > >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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