Good morning Bill and Cathy,

If we detach from the "perceived general definitions of Zen", couldn't five or six or fifty one be just menifestations and messages of Zen at that moment of witness relative to that moment only, which is impermanant and transient, which may be received only by our consiousness and not to our Inner Self?

The witness of the moment is important to calm our mind, train ourselves to be, as you stated, "no self", "no mind".  What is after that?  Or is there?

Is there a disconnect in the teachings after 2500 years? Is there one true which is also all? Or is it important?

With palms together,
JMJM

Bill Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 20 kahtychen wrote:

[Kahty...]Zen is five ... and six, ... and sometimes even fifty one.
Yesterday
when I was doing dishes, zen was fourteen.

Beautiful! Crisp! To-the-point. No clouds. No fog. No smoke and
mirrors.

Thank you...Bill!



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