Dear Philip:
Your are making a very good question here but the answer it might 
requires more than a short post.  However, it is in my personal 
experience that mindfulness is the growing energy of the buddha in 
us.  And yes, when we are truly mindful we are not any longer in 
samsara. About enlightenement: there is no way to enlightenment,  
enlightenment is the way.  And the same is with peace.  In fact Thich 
Nhat Hanh makes this statemant of peace: There is no way to peace, 
peace is the way.  

A white flower lotus to you
Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Phillip Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> So, we are released from Samsara when we become mindful? Or are we 
released from Samsara when we truly experience reality for what it 
really is, which, in turn, is brought about by mindfulness? It seems 
to me that mindfulness, meditation, and all of these actions lead one 
to enlightenment, but I do not think that they themselves are 
enlightenment. They are a means to an end. True mindfulness is a 
result of our Buddha nature not the other way around. Our true nature 
is beyond discrimination. Also, I do not believe that Donald was 
discriminating between Self and No-self. He is not disagreeing with 
you. He is saying that you are right essentially,  but that you 
didn't word it correctly. It did not seem to be and objection, but a 
matter of opinion.
>    
>   Peace and Blessings,
>   Allen
>   
> Mayka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>           Donald:
> My poem is insight and nothing else. Throw away all your notions 
and 
> you will understand the heart of the poem. And if you don't like it 
> just ignore it. However, by the way you answer it seems as you 
> discriminate between the self and the no-self. However, The Diamond 
> Sutra and the Prajnaparamitra sutras are sutras for life. The most 
> one meditates on them the richest became the insights they to one. 
> 
> SAMSARA: Every time that we are truly mindful, we are not any 
longer 
> into samsara.
> 
> Every time we loose our mindfulness we get into samsara.
> 
> A kind bow from
> Mayka
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, donald hwong <donaldhwong@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Based on what I have learned about Diamond Sutra,
> > 
> > The poem by Mayka is true only in "formlessness", not in "form", 
> not in words, only in "realform".
> > 
> > It is more than a concept. It can be witnessed when the 
> practitioner reaches a certain level. And it is not samsara.
> > 
> > _/\_
> > JMJM
> > 
> > Phillip Rogers <genesis6_8@> 
> wrote: 
> > Very nice poem. It does reflect a message of Zen appropriately. 
> Your poem has been a blessing to me. Thank you for it. 
> > However, I am not sure that Bill was necessarily making a 
> comment about your poem. Remember, as the Diamond Sutra indicates, 
> that there are no things. There is no Interbeing, there is no 
> mindfulness, there is no enlightenment or Buddha nature. These are 
> merely concepts that serve a purpose, like the finger pointing to 
the 
> moon, these words are instruments that help us to see into true 
> reality. This is the message of the Diamond sutra as well. So if 
Bill 
> takes a more self focused view of reality, is that necessarily any 
> different from your focus on interbeing?
> > 
> > Happiness to You Mayka,
> > Allen
> > 
> > Mayka <flordeloto@> wrote:
> > More English errors corrected: 
> > 
> > -- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mayka" <flordeloto@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Bill;
> > > 
> > > I Thank you for your feedback, but in this case I do not accept 
> > your
> > > correction as it does not correspond to the insight of
> > > the Diamond Sutra. Zen poetry can not be understood by 
> intelectual 
> > but
> > > through mindfulness, concentration and insight. My poem tries to
> > > transmit in a very basic way, the truth about interbeing while 
> yours
> > > keeps on the individual self. However, perhaps there is an 
English
> > > error and it should be reading:
> > > 
> > > I am you
> > > 
> > > You are me
> > > 
> > > we are One
> > > 
> > > Mayka
> > > 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mayka" <flordeloto@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am you
> > > > You is me
> > > > We are One
> > > > Mayka
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Need Mail bonding?
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers 
users.
> >
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
>  
> ---------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>




Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today! 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Reply via email to