Edgar, Thanks. I took a brief look at it and it looks very interesting. Long though (24 pages). I'll read it sometime in the next couple days and get back to you...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bill and Chris, > > If you want to understand time please read my paper on spacetime and > consciousness http://EdgarLOwen.com/stc.pdf > > Any comments would be appreciated, > Edgar > > > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:43 AM, Bill Smart wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > The 'origin' of zen is difficult to talk about because has a 1:1 > > relationship with the 'origin' of reality; and, the concept 'origin' > > presumes there is time, and that time flows in a constant direction. > > That's a lot to tackle before my morning cup of tea. I beleive the > > sense of time is a human construct (maya), so anything I would say > > using the concept of time would be misleading. > > > > Now that the caveat emptor is in place I will say I believe the > > ability to have a direct experience of reality has existed 'forever', > > or as long as reality, and that it is only the advent of sentient > > beings (evolution of the rational mind) that has occuluded the > > awareness of this ability. I think there were many, many people who > > were able to directly experience reality before Siddhartha Buddha (or > > the myth of) Siddhartha Buddha. Whether he and his story are real or > > not, his story is just the one we have mythologized, and for us he > > stands for the one who rediscovered (became aware) of this ability > > universal and pre-existing ability. > > > > That is pre-morning-cup-of-tea MY OPINION...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "cid830" <summitjags@> wrote: > > > > > > I too have enjoyed these latest threads, even though I'm afraid > > some > > > of the intended meanings may go over my head. I believe the > > > connection to God is reached through strict meditation (sure there > > > are other ways, but this is the ZEN_Forum)... We still have our > > > individual personalities that will shape what we do when we are > > > within our practice. No matter how close to a Buddha one may be, we > > > still have our Ego. If one chooses, he may use his new-found > > > awareness to help others, somewhat like a bodhidarma. A Zen > > > practitioner can still be a contributing member of society, we > > still > > > must live our lives. I do still enjoy hearing of Chan from JM. > > > Although I do now feel that JM may want to start a Chan_Forum. I > > see > > > the two practices are quite different. It is admirable to sync to > > > this life-force energy that several of us acknowledge is there, but > > > JM takes an active role in using this energy for purposes of > > other's > > > health and well-being. While this is admirable, it definitely is > > not > > > Zen. I do believe the the Buddha himself practiced Zen, even if Zen > > > is said to have been started at a later date... Like I have heard > > > before, it was always there, the Buddha is just credited with the > > 1st > > > person who found it. Through Zen like meditation, and living the > > > precepts and wisdom he had gained. The Eight-fold path, the Middle > > > Way and such. But that is just my buddhist philosophy that is > > > coloring my opinion. > > > > > > Thanks Anyway, > > > Later, > > > Chris > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Fitness63" <fitness63@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: cid830 >if you detach yourself from your Ego through these > > > > 'mind-numbing' practices you will be a better person, more in- > > tune > > > with the > > > > world around you and enabling you to be an agent of change or > > > positive > > > > influence to others. > > > > > > > > > I would like that, but Bill, Mike, Edgar, etc., state it is just > > an > > > illusion > > > > which is trancended when you reach the JUST THIS stage. > > > > > > > > I realize that I can be a bit combative about some issues, so I > > > apologize > > > > for that. I think a while back I hit this wall we are discussing > > > now and it > > > > was never clarified for me and I gave up on zen and just chalked > > it > > > up as > > > > another bogus path that I had followed. > > > > > > > > I am enjoying this discussion because I realize that it is > > > something that > > > > has been bothering me for a long time. Where is the connection to > > > God, > > > > Universal, Dharma, ancestors, etc. What is the point of living a > > > good life > > > > if it means nothing and has no value? Why make sacrifices if we > > are > > > just > > > > bits of meaningless nothing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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