Mike, I always enjoy your posts, thank you. Even though I no longer practice, I still believe deeply in the Zen existence. And, no, I have not been listening to Al. Al should understand that if you detach yourself from your Ego through these 'mind-numbing' practices you will be a better person, more in-tune with the world around you and enabling you to be an agent of change or positive influence to others. I was just trying to point out one of the differences between Chan and Zen. In my reading of Bill's response to JM's explanation on Chi, I felt he was just dismissing as symmantics, but I was trying to relate my experience with Energy in Zen is the real and true experience of Chi in Chan. The difference being JM acknowledges and consciously uses this Kundalini energy in his practice, where we can acknowledge it in Zen, but we do not let it affect our concentration.
Thank You, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Chris, > Whilst sitting on my vipassana retreat I experienced many instances of energy rushing up my spine (kundalini), mind expansion, loss of physical/mental boundaries reuslting in feelings of oceanic bliss and even one occassion where I became nothing but a body of minute, blue paricles. I also experienced tremendous amounts of physical pain, boredom and daydreaming. Both positive and negative experiences are important but only in as much as they lead to the realisation/insight that they are just phenonema/maya. Your teacher was correct - just sit thru them with equanimity and don't crave them or push them away. This insight can then be applied to your everyday life where you can accept things as they are and not try to control the uncontrollable. This does not mean that you live life in some kind of numb, zombie like existence (you listening Al?), but experience reality directly as it is without adding a subjective commentary created by a turbulent/fical > mind. Mike. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: cid830 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, 7 September, 2008 10:19:01 > Subject: [Zen] Chan? > > > Bill, > > I experienced in deep practice of Zen a tremendous amount of ENERGY > while meditating. Usually just when I would reach a completely > relaxed state I would experience the most beautiful rush of energy, > but through my training I would just ignore this and continue my > concentration. > > Through my very limited knowledge of Chan, it seems to me that JM > speaks of this experience of ENERGY the tangible experience of Chi. > It seems to me the He can manipulate this energy, or karma, or chi > for positive values. > > So that seems to me at least part of it; hopefully JM can help me out > alittle. But that seems to also be a difference between Chan and Zen. > Zen just experience Just This, and Chan, cultivate the energies of > Just This for a positive existence. > > Later, > And I always reserve the right to completely be Wrong! > > Chris > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/