--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "roloro1557" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hmmmm. Lets start by saying that illusions about love and sex are 
> of the most stubborn and difficult to detach from, and it may be
> impossible for some people (age is a factor) because of hormones.

I partially agree with you here. Agree with you that Love (I have no 
enough experience about sex in order to make a strong statement ). 
Therefor,  I'd rather talk only about my personal direct experience 
which is what the real dharma is made after all.  Agree with you that 
love towards a partner,  is one of the most difficult things to 
overcome because of attachment to the person we love and that this 
can be applied to all ages.   Though you're right and perhaps the 
younger a person is the most difficult is detachement. In contrast to 
this,  it's perhaps this attachment, passion and desire towards our 
lover and reciprocated by him/her what makes love so thrilling and 
attractive. It can kills you and give you all life.  It's a really, 
really an amazing experience.  I'm fully aware of that love based in 
passion and desire is a dangerous illussion created partially by the 
need of love and the need to be loved by someone and partially by 
Chemical impulsess as you well pointed out. But is this altogether 
emotion amongst the most powerful greatest and 
 beatiful illusion a human being can ever experienced.  it's is the 
one where one does not need to read any book, to have any Teacher but 
just follow the intense flow of life energy.  I do not mind to have 
that illussion because it does makes me going.  I will suffer and I'm 
fully aware of that but nevertheless I'm willing to pay the price for 

Mother Nature is not a manipulator.  Mather Nature is just Mother 
Nature.  It's not good or bad.  But a flowing energy in continous 

Thanks for posting


> I am talking about recent research written about by Helen Fisher
> (physical anthropology). Fisher has several books out. Also research
> done in the late 70's by the woman who wrote Love And Limmerance,
> whose name I unfortunately cannot remember. If you have access to
> video or television, the National Geographic Channel, there is a 
> good episode of the show Naked Science called What's Sexy? that will
> give you the basics.

> The basic gist is this: Mother Nature is a brilliant manipulator and
> She has a nearly unlimited toolbox at Her disposal. Mother Nature 
is a
> very foxy Lady, and by foxy I mean super-intelligent and sly. Mother
> Nature wants us to make babies and has some very good tricks to get 
> to do just that. 
> First of all you must understand that hormones are not just any
> chemicals, they are mind altering drugs every bit as powerful as LSD
> or any of the others. Also remember that there's 60 some hormones,
> estrogen and testosterone are only 2 of them. Anyway, what we think 
> as "love" - that is, romantic love between a woman and a man, is
> nothing more than a very powerful chemical-hormonal cocktail served 
> courtesy of Mother Nature via your own brain to get you to do one
> thing: make babies. It is a complete illusion. It does not exist. It
> is not "personal" - the same chemical cocktail is served to anyone 
> has ever been, or ever will be "in love." 
> Animals are served roughly the same chemical cocktail (depending on
> species) chimpanzees, for example, get almost exactly the same
> chemical cocktail we do. The difference is animals don't try to make
> it into something it's not by getting married, writing sappy love
> songs, declaring it ordained of God, etc. The animals breed, raise 
> young, and get on with the rest of life. I guess it's no secret by 
> that I think animals are much "smarter" than people in this area.
> Now, I want you to understand that Helen Fisher has received death
> threats over this. I'm not kidding. So I really am going out on a 
> here. I've had a glass of water thrown into my face over it and have
> been told that I am unspeakably evil. I just want to remind everyone
> that I am a mother. I used to be under the influence of that same
> chemical cocktail. But now I am a post-menopausal woman, and
> post-menopausal women are in a unique position. We no longer have
> enough of certain hormones to make the chemical cocktail...we are 
> to observe and communicate what it's like to be an adult and not be
> influenced by the chemicals. All I can say is that my personal
> experience corroborates the research. 
> I could get into a lot of other stuff about why the culture 
> treats older women the way it does, but I don't want get into it 
> now.
> There you go, Edgar.
> PEACE to everyone else.


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