Please, please, please don't say that intelligent design is a science....
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 22:49:45
Subject: Re: [Zen] Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
In spite of Bill and Anthony's retorts this is a very important and valid
question, at least certainly as much so as any other question.
While it is true that Zen doesn't ask this question, the fact that it doesn't
gives it no right to ask any other question. The question of God is certainly
the ultimate koan!
Whether god exists or not depends first of all on how the term is defined. If
we take the Christian or any other ancient religious definition then there is
of course no evidence for his (their) existence and plenty of counter evidence.
If such a god is postulated to exist that just begs the question of who created
him. This understanding of god is from the childhood of humanity. Likewise the
AI conception of a programmer god a la the Matrix and sci fi (which by the way
I wrote about in a short story in the '60's about what I called 'Livies', that
we all were living in an artificial reality so real it seemed like reality and
how each cycle intelligent life would gradually construct virtual realities so
convincing that they would ultimately become characters within them, etc. which
is really what the human brain is doing in actuality - constructing an illusory
reality in which we think we live - which is very close to Zen's world of
On the other hand if we merely define God as the creative life/motive force of
the universe then by definition god exists. It is very clear that the
intelligence embedded in the structure and design of the universe and the DNA
etc. is many orders of magnitude greater than human intelligence. Perhaps
someday when we understand the functioning of DNA we will find encoded there
the signature of the artist?
I have my own ideas on this and the ultimate fate of the universe....
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:03 AM, Dave wrote:
Edgar Owen <> it does cast doubt on specifically human self
consciousness after brain death.
There is a theory that even the illusion of the white light is the
brain just trying to give the emotional human a last positive feeling
of peace. All chemicals. We are just an electrical meat cell, and the
question is, WHO CREATED THIS PROGRAM and the physical manifestation
(body) which is way beyond the complexity of any realistic theory of
We are programmed a certain way. Who programmed us? Why are we seeking
God, enlightenment, the transcendence of the now and our physical
limitations? ? What is it we are searching for? It is not something
new, it is a memory of something we know already.