The design of the universe is intelligent (in the sense that it
manifests intelligence), that is without a doubt. That need not imply
a designer outside the design, though it's a possibility that can't
be ruled out a priori.
On Nov 4, 2008, at 9:36 AM, mike brown wrote:
Please, please, please don't say that intelligent design is a
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 22:49:45
Subject: Re: [Zen] Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
In spite of Bill and Anthony's retorts this is a very important and
valid question, at least certainly as much so as any other question.
While it is true that Zen doesn't ask this question, the fact that
it doesn't gives it no right to ask any other question. The
question of God is certainly the ultimate koan!
Whether god exists or not depends first of all on how the term is
defined. If we take the Christian or any other ancient religious
definition then there is of course no evidence for his (their)
existence and plenty of counter evidence. If such a god is
postulated to exist that just begs the question of who created him.
This understanding of god is from the childhood of humanity.
Likewise the AI conception of a programmer god a la the Matrix and
sci fi (which by the way I wrote about in a short story in the
'60's about what I called 'Livies', that we all were living in an
artificial reality so real it seemed like reality and how each
cycle intelligent life would gradually construct virtual realities
so convincing that they would ultimately become characters within
them, etc. which is really what the human brain is doing in
actuality - constructing an illusory reality in which we think we
live - which is very close to Zen's world of illusion).
On the other hand if we merely define God as the creative life/
motive force of the universe then by definition god exists. It is
very clear that the intelligence embedded in the structure and
design of the universe and the DNA etc. is many orders of magnitude
greater than human intelligence. Perhaps someday when we understand
the functioning of DNA we will find encoded there the signature of
I have my own ideas on this and the ultimate fate of the universe....
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:03 AM, Dave wrote:
Edgar Owen <> it does cast doubt on specifically human self
consciousness after brain death.
There is a theory that even the illusion of the white light is the
brain just trying to give the emotional human a last positive feeling
of peace. All chemicals. We are just an electrical meat cell, and the
question is, WHO CREATED THIS PROGRAM and the physical manifestation
(body) which is way beyond the complexity of any realistic theory of
We are programmed a certain way. Who programmed us? Why are we
God, enlightenment, the transcendence of the now and our physical
limitations? ? What is it we are searching for? It is not something
new, it is a memory of something we know already.