Siska and JMJM,

This excellent phrase means to me that the Dharma (Buddhist teachings) and 
enlightenment (full realization and practice of those teachings) exist in the 
everyday world - as opposed to an eclectic or special religious or spiritual 
world.  It is a very powerful statement.

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jue Miao Jing Ming - ????
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 3:54 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Sutra Study

  
Hello Siska,

Sorry.  This phrase, "Dharma is in the secular world.  Enlightenment is within 
the secular world." is from the Second Chapter of Prajna of the Platform Sutra 
by the Sixth Patriarch, Hui Neng.

This is a good one to read also.  I would read it after the Heart Sutra. 

The key to enlightenment if I may emphasize is to sit.  Reading is for the 
mind.  Sitting is for the spirit.

:-) 
JM
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 11/1/2010 11:51 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: 
  
Hi JMJM,

I was actually asking about the specific sutra you quoted before, but since you 
mentioned some sutras, I might actually look them up :-)

siska
________________________________________
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com> 
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:38:37 -0700
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [Zen] Sutra Study

  
Hello Siska,

Thank you for asking.  Sutra is nothing but a description of Buddha's journey.  
Bible is nothing but a description of Jesus' journey.

The difference of the two is only in the length.  Buddha spoke for 49 years and 
Jesus had only about 3 years.  Yet they both were enlightened to be one with 
the "universe/God/Buddha/Big Mind/Big Spirit".  In other words, spirituality is 
just a connection.  Words are just descriptors.

For the first 15 years, my Teacher taught nothing but Sitting Chan, which were 
brought to Japan 600 years later to be pronounced as zazen.

After we sat for 15 years, somehow we understood most of the sutra.  

As Bill would suggest, just sit.  And I agree.  After you sit with proper Belly 
Breathing for two to three years, your awareness will rise, you will notice the 
phenomena in your body and brain.  Along this path truth will be unfold.  This 
is really the most effective and quickest way to be enlightened.  Okay?  

Because Buddha spoke for 49 years, there are too many sutra to be read.  If you 
really want to read some of them, then I would begin with Heart Sutra.  Read 
every translation that you can find.  Then I would read Xin Xin Ming.  Both are 
very short.  By the time you can actually witness both, then you are ready to 
read Diamond Sutra.  Once you truly absorbed Diamond Sutra, you would then 
realize that words are just emptiness by nature.  Everything and every 
phenomena in our lives are just as they suppose to be.  It is us who is 
interpreting them needlessly.  Then the purpose of your life will be unfold to 
you.

Thank you for the opportunity to share.
JMJM
Head Teacher
Order Of Buddha Heart
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 10/31/2010 4:02 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: 
  
Hi JMJM,

Can you please tell me more about this sutra?

siska
________________________________________
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com> 
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:23:54 -0700
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

  
Hi Siska,

That quote I posted was how it was in the sutra, the exact words are, "Dharma 
is in the secular world, Buddha is awakened from the secular world."

Due to our ego, usually majority of us consider every day events are not 
perfectly desirable.  That's perhaps the reason for the sutra to verse it this 
way.  Buddhists usually parallel the secular world to the mud of a lotus, and 
lotus signifies the awakening, or Buddha.  

That's how Buddhist usually say, "Respect the mud, absorb from the mud, 
cultivate the lotus." 
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 10/30/2010 7:58 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: 
  

> Enlightenment is reached from every day life...

Not: "every day life IS enlightenment"?

siska
________________________________________
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com> 
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:22:01 -0700
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

  
Indeed, Bill.

If I may add to this very important basics..

The key to "eventually integrate it into everyday life" is NOT after we reach 
kensho or satori, but rather practice to drop our "discriminating mind" for all 
instances occurring at every moment in our daily life.  And do it with 
harmonious and compassionate heart.  Meaning to live with pure heart without 
judgment or question or suspicion from our limited knowledge or experience.  

Then we will be able to realize the wisdom/truth for every occurrence.  Thus we 
are able to manage our lives with wisdom.  This is labeled as "liberation", or 
"detachment from all forms".

Sutra stated very clearly, "dharma is everyday life. Enlightenment is reached 
from every day life..."

Thank you for your attention

JMJM
Head Teacher
Order of Buddha Heart
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 10/29/2010 3:18 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: 
  
Siska,

This is what all zen teaching is about - getting to that state of 'no mind'. 
Japanese Zen Buddhism has terms for this state. The first 'glimpse' of 'no 
mind' or 'no self' or 'Buddha Mind' is called 'kensho'. It comes unexpectedly 
and lasts only a brief time. This may be the experiences you described in your 
post below.

As you continue zen practice you may experience some very intense versions of 
this called 'satori'. After kensho and satori your continued zen practice will 
deepen and lengthen this state, and eventually integrate it into your everyday 
life (or perhaps its more accurate to say you will integrate your everyday life 
into Buddha Mind. Eventually you can even re-integrate intellectualizations in 
Buddha Mind.

How do you do this?, you asked. As I said above, this is what zen teaching is 
about. The direct answer to your question is zazen. More indirect methods are 
koan study, chanting, bowing, washing dishes, mowing the lawn...anything done 
with your full attention and focus can be your zen practice and can lead to 
this state.

...Bill! 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Siska
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:02 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking time to explain.

> When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct experience. This is 
> done by shutting down your discriminating, rational mind which is usually 
> always busy filtering, augmenting, categorizing, judging, etc... experiences. 

My experience so far has been the rational mind can be absence, especially 
during sitting or other time, but this mostly happens unexpected, out of 
sudden. I have no idea it can be shut down at will. How do you do that? Will I 
be able to do that if I do zen meditation?

siska

--- On Thu, 28/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 28 October, 2010, 7:31

Siska,

I purposefully did not jump right in and answer your question about Buddha. I 
knew there'd be plenty of others who would respond to that. But, your comments 
in the attached post prompt me to respond.

Buddha does mean 'the awakened one' in Sanskrit - at least that's what I've 
been told. It's also a title when used in someone's name - like Siddhartha 
Gautama Buddha.

When someone has 'awakened' they are opened up to direct experience. This is 
done by shutting down your discriminating, rational mind which is usually 
always busy filtering, augmenting, categorizing, judging, etc... experiences. 
The 'awakening' part would be akin to someone who has been living in a dream 
(samsara, a world of illusions) but has now awakened.

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
siska_...@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:03 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Hi Ed, Bill,

I just remember reading somewhere, long time ago that Buddha literally means 
the awakened one. If I google the term for definition, I'd probably find 
something like this too (among others), which means that Buddha is the one who 
is awakened instead of direct experience.

So I think I'm going to skip all the definitions and allow this mind to 
perceive whatever is when reading your posts. Sound like a lot more fun :-)

siska
________________________________________
From: <billsm...@hhs1963.org> 
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:25:33 +0700
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Ed,

‘One’ does not experience Buddha.

The term ‘Buddha’ and ‘direct experience’ are the same thing. Buddha is
direct experience.

‘One’ (self) is not present.

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:03 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine

Whatever one experiences 'Buddha' to be.
--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> 
> Your question: "What on earth is not an illusion?" is what zen is all
about!
> 
> All thoughts and concepts of the discriminating mind (the rational mind
that
> creates dualisms such as self/other, subject/object and makes judgments
such
> as good/bad, right/wrong) are illusions.
> 
> Only direct experience is not illusory. 'Direct' means before the
> experience goes through the discriminating mind and gets processed there
> (filtered, augmented, named, categorized, assigned a value, etc...). Zen
> Buddhism calls this 'Buddha Mind' or 'Buddha Nature'. Joshu called it 'Mu'
> and 'The Oak Tree in the Garden'. Ummon called it 'A Dried Shit-Stick'.
> Gutei just held up his index finger. I call it 'Just THIS!'.
> 
> So I now ask you: What is Buddha?
> 
> ...Bill!

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