Hi, Bill

No idea in finnish, but I suppose that all idioms have their specialities

German: Bedeute bedeutes Bedeute, english "Means means means", spanish 
"significa significa significa"
Idem in catalan

Catalan: a cap cap cap lo que cap en aquest cap: "in no head could be placed 
what this head could contain"

With best wishes

Lluís
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: billsm...@hhs1963.org 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:37 AM
  Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas


    

  Anthony,



  Actually Thai does not really have three tenses as I said, not in the same 
way as English or Spanish has.  They only have one form of a verb – Present 
tense.  They use modifiers to designate other tenses, but only two other tenses 
I know of – Past and Future.



  An example would be the transliteration of the Thai word for ‘go’ is ‘bai’ 
(pronounced like ‘bye’).  So:



  ‘go’ would be ‘bai’

  ‘gone’ or ‘have gone’ would be ‘bai laow’ (like ‘go already’)

  ‘will go’ would be ‘ja bai’



  That’s it.  As far as I know there is no way to translate something like ‘By 
next Tuesday I will have been going to class for 5 weeks’.



  Thai’s also have 5 tones: high, medium, low, rising and falling.  These tones 
could be applied to any word (syllable) such as ‘mai’.  The syllable ‘mai’, 
depending on the tone used, could mean: ‘new’, ‘wood’, ‘no’, ‘burn’ or denote a 
question if placed at the end of a statement (with a rising tone).  So the 
question ‘New word doesn’t burn, does it?’ could be expressed using only the 
syllable ‘mai’ with different tones like this: ‘wood new no burn [question]’.



  How would you say that in Finnish?



  …Bill!



  From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Anthony Wu
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:13 AM
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas



    

        Bill,



        Oriental languages do not deemphasize time or personal relationships. 
They rely on adjectives, adverbs, pronouns etc to donate time and 
relationships, while westerners inflect the words for the same purposes.



        I am surprised to hear Thai has three tenses. Where are they?



        Anthony

        --- On Sat, 13/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> 
wrote:


          From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
          Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, 13 November, 2010, 3:09 PM

            

          Anthony,

          I know Thai’s drop subject and sometimes even object all the time, 
but I
          thought it was just because they, like Westerners, are lazy.

          For example, I could ask you: ‘Are you hungry?’, or I could just ask 
by
          saying: ‘Hungry?’ (with a rising tone). That's just laziness, or being
          casual in your speech.

          I do think language does reveal the different values of culture. For
          example in Thai there are only 3 tenses: past, present and future; 
whereas
          there are many, many adjectives and pronouns that are used to 
specifically
          identify the speaker's relationship with the one addressed. In English
          there are many (27?) verb tenses and very few special pronouns. This I
          think shows that Westerner's value time more than Asians; whereas 
Asians put
          more importance on personal relationships than time.

          ...Bill!

          From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf
          Of ED
          Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 9:53 AM
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas

            

           
          The Geography of Thought: How Culture Colors the Way the Mind ...
           
          --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
          >
          > ED,
          >  
          > That is not the way it is. It is too complicated to explain, but the
          oriental way is different from occidental. The former is synthetic, 
while
          the latter analytical. So you need subjects, objects, predicates, 
adverbials
          and other nonsense to try to complete your analysis. In other words, 
the
          westerners are more discriminating (in general).
          >  
          > Anthony
           
          > Anthony,
          > I think the reason is that Zen Masters use the Tantric principle 
that one
          should behave in ways as if one already possesses that which one 
aspires to
          attain; in this case, to possess a non-dualistic mind that does not
          discriminate between subject and object.
          > --ED
          > > ED,
          > > 
          > > Many oriental sentences are without subjects or objects. Bill is
          completely adjusted to Thailand, and the zen way. They are very 
grammatical
          here.
          > > 
          > > Anthony
           
          > > Bill,
          > > Nice succinct answer. 
          > > And, question:  Your zen-like statement in ungrammatical, without
          subject or object. Is this a zen tradition of speaking, with a view to
           training the mind out of its customary dualistic mode of experiencing
          reality?
          > > Thank you, ED
           
          > > Mayka and Ed,
          > > 
          > > Or perhaps Bill! would say: 'No effort, no judgment, no grasping, 
no
          > > pushing-away, no concepts - Just THIS!
          > > 
          > > ...Bill!

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