Bill sensei Zen Forum students gasshos.



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
>
Lluis,

I'm not saying that Westerners, in fact all humans that manifest a
dualistic, discriminating mind, are tied to subject/object and verbs
that
describe action. That's a given.

What I'm saying is that there are forms of English (and I suppose
other
languages) that are utterances free from subject/object/verb, that are
not
restricted by grammar.

In the example phrases I used below: `Hungry!' and
`Fire!', YOU are the one
who is interjecting the dualism. If I yell `Fire!' or
`Duck!' you will
first just equate the sound to DANGER and react BEFORE you mentally
reconstruct and augment the sound to `I have observed a fire and
want to be
sure you are aware of it.'

Other non-exclamatory examples are in poetry, especially zen-inspired
haikus
such as Basho's famous haiku in which he attempted to communicate a
DIRECT
EXPERIENCE (Buddha Mind) he had. There are many attempts at translating
this haiku, and the results show me whether or not the translator was
translating with his/her discriminating mind or Buddha Mind:

ORIGINAL JAPANESE

Furu ike ya
kawazu tobikomu
mizu no oto (Basho)


DUALISTIC/DISCRIMINATING MIND TRANSLATION

There once was a curious frog
Who sat by a pond on a log
And, to see what resulted,
In the pond catapulted
With a water-noise heard round the bog. (Alfred H. Marks)

MIX OF DUALISTIC/DISCRIMINATING MIND AND BUDDHA MIND TRANSLATION

Into the ancient pond
A frog jumps
Water's sound! (D.T. Suzuki)

BUDDHA MIND TRANSLATION

pond
frog
plop! (James Kirkup)

Remember when I posted about what I describe as 'zen talk' and 'talking
about zen'? The first translation above is 'talking about an
experience'.
The second is a mix, and the third is 'experience talk' - or 'zen talk'.

The point is that language does have the ability to be used and to
communicate non-dualistic (no subject/object/verb) experiences. Language
evolved, not engineered. It is not appropriate to try to superimpose a
logical structure on an evolved system. The grammatical rules that we
associate with languages have been developed AFTER-THE-FACT, not
CONCURRENT
with the language. For example humans could speak and communicate very
well
before anyone ever decided to categorize words into nouns, verbs,
subjects
and objects. All this grammar is imposed upon language in an attempt to
'understand' language. 'Understand' always means 'impose a logical
structure'.

...Bill!






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